Tell us about your last flight

[Flightrite]

The most tragic part is that it was totally avoidable🙁We’ll never know obviously but I’m surprised he didn’t pull the power right back once he would have known the A/C was uncontrollable? That’s odd! There’s so many things here that don’t add up? 

This sort of event will happen again someday, guaranteed!

[Thruster88]

Why aircraft "engineers" choose to lock the controls in a position that allows the aircraft to takeoff is a mystery. 

[Flightrite]

Like pilots rely on engineers to do their job properly they in turn rely on pilots to do likewise, obviously not in this case!

[RFguy]

what happened to "controls full and free and of correct sense" ?

 

[Garfly]

Gone the way of the forgotten 'bumfish', I guess; human errror. 

 

But good aviation engineering - especially the making of cockpit interfaces - has always tried to take into account, the inevitable failings of pilots. There's a reason the gear lever has a little wheel on it.  And the flap lever doesn't.

 

Anyway, the NTSB report was not impressed with the design of that gust lock, either:

 

Tests and Research:

 

Flight Control Lock

 

Examination of a similar airplane confirmed that, with the control lock engaged, although the ailerons and elevators were completely locked, the rudder and tailwheel could still be moved to near full travel, such that the airplane could be maneuvered almost completely unhindered while taxiing. Although the control lock is painted red, the pilot’s view of the lock in the engaged position is such that the lock is viewed at its narrowest profile, directly down its length.

 

Another 1019 series airplane owner relayed his experience with the flight control lock. He stated that, on one occasion, he had planned a local flight with a passenger in the back seat and became distracted and forgot to remove the flight control lock before flight. He was able to taxi for departure, still unaware that the lock was in place, and became distracted during the pre-takeoff checks because he was talking to the passenger. He stated that he was able to complete the initial stages of takeoff with the control lock engaged, and once he realized, he had to struggle to remove the lock due to the forces on the control stick during takeoff. After a few seconds he was able to free it, and the flight progressed uneventfully.

 

The pilot’s friend, who had delivered the airplane, stated that you could easily get into the airplane with the control lock engaged. He further stated that, like most tailwheel-equipped airplanes, heavy differential braking was required to steer the airplane, and only limited rudder movement was required. Following the accident, he performed a series of checks in a similar airplane with the control lock attached. He determined that the airplane could be taxied uninhibited with the control lock engaged. With the control lock engaged and the airplane parked, he could not remove it with reasonable force if there was any control pressure on the stick, because it appeared to hang up on the lock pin until he released pressure

 

https://s30121.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Snodgrass-SIAI-Marchetti-SM-1019B-NTSB-Final-Report.pdf

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Garfly

[Mike Gearon]

14 hours ago, RFguy said:

90% of my practice work is without an instructor. 

I always have a small notebook with me and or my inline voice recorder on the mic so I can make notes

like.... hmm let me think things I have done in the past...Forgot to retract flaps on late go around...... or....was way too deep downwind for the wind, or ...didnt do in-climb engine check... or  didnt remove the carb heat at late final, or didnt do bumfish check due to distraction on that downwind or... etc etc I think all of those sort of errors occur when I not flying regularly and there is in circuit traffic and radio traffic.

That’s a great idea. I’ll take onboard. Each time I’ve had an instructor back onboard it’s been a useful experience. Also, I’ve now flown in the right seat a few times and I see what they see. You have a pilot engaged in multiple things and it’s super easy to see small control errors and I was surprised how easy it is to just to help with one control surface.

 

Meaning…. I can see how an instructor can allow an aircraft to get a fair bit out of control so the pilot sees the error then bring it back with a little help. 

[red750]

[Jase T]

https://youtu.be/LoAQ0q75lSI

 

 

[RFguy]

I dunno.

I still think it comes down to checklists and pilot adherence.

Line17 : CHECK CONTROLS FULL FREE AND CORRECT SENSE

 

[Garfly]

No one would disagree Glen, least of all Dale Snodgrass.

He'd be heartily agreeing today, but for that bit of dodgy design.

 

(Anyway, it was your own [wise] 'HF' awareness that got us started.  ;- )

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Garfly

[sfGnome]

18 hours ago, Flightrite said:

Like pilots rely on engineers to do their job properly they in turn rely on pilots to do likewise, obviously not in this case!

As any (good) engineer will tell you, it’s easy to design something, but it’s hard to think of every stupid thing that a user will try to do with it! Testing that the design works as intended is the easy bit; testing that it still works when used incorrectly takes much longer. Yes, the pilot should have tested free and full movement, but the designer had a responsibility to design for the case where the controls were left locked. 

[RFguy]

that's the thing isnt it.... can you design it to catch distracted pilots who didnt get enough sleep, AND also not to be a PITA for undistracted, well slept  pilots ?

I find the biggest distraction is radio traffic that affects me that goes unresolved. Like trying to search for an aircraft in circuit while in circuit, OR an aircraft calling inbound and where is he  while taxing.

 

- causes a whole train of continuity of thought and proceedure to be trashed.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by RFguy

[Flightrite]

At the end of the day the avoidable tragic event was pilot error, a rookie pilot error, which makes it even more tragic considering the guys experience! 
 

[Blueadventures]

 

Todays nice winter time flight along the coast.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Blueadventures

[RFguy]

Love it. On first landing, perhaps a little more flare ? run out of speed a bit at the end and couldnt get enough elevator authority for a flare??

premature back stick relax ?.  IE not continuing to hold stick back after mains contact ?

just throwing the discussion out there..

Edited July 11, 2022 by RFguy

[Blueadventures]

37 minutes ago, RFguy said:

Love it. On first landing, perhaps a little more flare ? run out of speed a bit at the end and couldnt get enough elevator authority for a flare??

premature back stick relax ?.  IE not continuing to hold stick back after mains contact ?

just throwing the discussion out there..

Its hard to see in the video but there are two humps / gullies that run on an angle across the strip.  The two greener areas are the gullies where the water stays longest.  Bit rough around them.  I mentioned to the owner if he could place white 20 litre drum markers on the humps but he is ok with things as they are. 

 

Attached is my landing on black stuff the next day two up.  The Nynja doesn't keep its nose wheel up off the deck easily.  Must be the position of the mains; I keep full back stick so only light on the ground while speed decays.  The nose wheel jumps up and down a lot due to its light balance.  Cheers.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Blueadventures

[facthunter]

I've flown the Sky ranger and they fly the same. Perhaps the wheels are a bit further rearwards than some. Same on take off. You tug back a bit and then it decides to "leap" off the ground. when it's ready. Nev

[Garfly]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

I've flown the Sky ranger and they fly the same. Perhaps the wheels are a bit further rearwards than some. Same on take off. You tug back a bit and then it decides to "leap" off the ground. when it's ready. Nev

 

The classic SKR did tend to drop the nosewheel on a bit firmly after the mains touched down.  Some operators tamed this tendency by rotating the tube to which the gear legs attach in order to shift the main gear forward a bit.  This, of course, required shortening the drag link bracing the legs.

 

 

[facthunter]

Wouldn't hurt to alter it, but it's not a critical issue. The nosewheel is quite robust and you get used to it. Nev

[Blueadventures]

32 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Wouldn't hurt to alter it, but it's not a critical issue. The nosewheel is quite robust and you get used to it. Nev

I did adjust the elevator up to its max specification degrees of +2.  The nose wheel bounces up even on smoothish surfaces so light down pressure.  Won't change anything as now have 315 hours and will be fitting the new 600kg certified main gear legs later in year (still awaiting availability) and will see where they sit in relation to the current setup.  There is a 600kg kit being assembled north of Newcastle and another awaiting shipment to Victoria and a total of 40 600kg variants  are either built or under construction so the real world data will start to come in as the hours accumulate.  I have the wing upgrade kit so plan at present is to get the the U/c fitted and fly at present MTOW and then fit the 600kg upgrade to the wings and submit paperwork with new MTOW and w&b, using all factory parts.

[facthunter]

If I recall correctly the plane flys fine and doesn't require much trim change over the speed range.  It's BCAR approved (UK). This one had a HKS engine and Kiev prop. I did the initial test flying and balance of 25 hours plus a bit more here and there. Nev

[Blueadventures]

12 minutes ago, facthunter said:

If I recall correctly the plane flys fine and doesn't require much trim change over the speed range.  It's BCAR approved (UK). This one had a HKS engine and Kiev prop. I did the initial test flying and balance of 25 hours plus a bit more here and there. Nev

Nynjas are a little longer and do require trim adjustments for speed changes; say 55 to 95 kts as an example.

[facthunter]

I didn't say no trim change, but it's a lot less than some.  Citabria for instance.  Nev

[Blueadventures]

13 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I didn't say no trim change, but it's a lot less than some.  Citabria for instance.  Nev

OK, understand.

 

[Mike Gearon]

Nynja is a little lacking in elevator authority landing. That’s about it’s only negative to a great little aircraft.