ev17ifly2 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I think the pilots who consistently fly smart and safe, do thorough preflight and fly disciplined just keep doing what your doingAll all others who don't how about you start as it can and does happen to not only someone else That might keep the fatal accidents to a minimum There is a risk in every day life so to survive a life time requires a minimal exposure & some luck We all end up dead in the end but some sooner than they expected by their own choice of actions Thank you Alf for injecting a modicum of common sense into this thread. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 People want THEIR favourite thing mandated, but won't always like what others want mandated. It's like forcing ONE religion (or any) on every one. Sell the advantages and let people make their OWN decisions. No one's stopping you fitting one.. As for using one over water. It might just drown you. Nev 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I've already done quite a bit of research and am continuing into the area. They are not expensive and just because Cirrus options them at 256 trillion dollars, as they do with everything, doesn't mean that's the way it is. I'm at $600 USD at the moment but I need a bit more info yet which will not come until I get Stateside and visit the manufacturer. Cirrus don't offer recovery chutes as an option. It is standard fit in all their aircraft and you cannot legally fly without the chute as it is to be deployed for spin recovery. And yes, it is expensive to service, about $20,000 every ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 the ballistic parachute is still cheaper than a funeral Not if the shute causes one. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 ...Why are you lot fixated on one specific type. There is a large array of chutes out there for different purposes and has been for a long time, from a kid throwing a plastic soldier up in the air to dropping a tank out of a C30. …I mentioned BRS because that's what I am familiar with; they were the pioneers, they're proven to work and I'm happy to pay for that. I tried to buy a European version but the importer was too hard to deal with. I was not aware of others on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Probably should start a new thread chaps. (and Chappettes) Nev 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Not if the shute causes one.Alan. how could that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 If you are attending a crashed plane, for one. You are supposed to placard it . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Idiots killing themselves since Jesus was a boy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That's not much of an argument ft. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Cirrus don't offer recovery chutes as an option. It is standard fit in all their aircraft and you cannot legally fly without the chute as it is to be deployed for spin recovery. And yes, it is expensive to service, about $20,000 every ten years. How can it cost $20k to service when you can buy one for $6k? I don't agree with mandating them. It's an individual choice. I'm choosing to install one, others won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 How can it cost $20k to service when you can buy one for $6k?I don't agree with mandating them. It's an individual choice. I'm choosing to install one, others won't. Marty-d, I'd say that is because it is a Cirrus and because your paying upwards of 1/2 a million for the plane, obviously they would have some take on the costing of removal & installation, likewise as you say my chute I had on the trike was $6,300 all up. I for one will not ridicule you for installing one as I think they are a wise choice for a 2nd chance at life, you will as I did most likely go through your flying career never going near that red handle, but it is there if the unforseen comes out to bite at you and if it saves you just once it is better than not having that option at your disposal. Each to their own mate, I'm a believer even though I don't have one on my Tecnam currently. Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Nasty one Ft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microman Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 You can always rely on FT to come up with the nuttiest suggestions - make a ballistic parachute mandatory? That has to be the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time - still I suppose on a forum like this you are going to get the full spectrum of craziness. The day that happens is the day I give up flying. Just maintain your aircraft properly, make sure you have a proven reliable engine and go for it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 how could that happen? simple...when the chute deploys just be upside down and falling......you'll become a pre wrapped omelette.... Don't say not possible cause that exactly what happened to the drifter after I had my first TIF in about 1985 at Emerald Beach near Coffs..... Roman candle I think is the name they give that occurrence FWIW in that case the aircraft was well stuffed and without emergency chute his numbers were up!.....It didn't save him, but had circumstances been otherwise it may well have.... Swaged cable(s) failure as I recall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 You can always rely on FT to come up with the nuttiest suggestions - make a ballistic parachute mandatory? That has to be the dumbest idea I have heard in a long time - still I suppose on a forum like this you are going to get the full spectrum of craziness. The day that happens is the day I give up flying. Just maintain your aircraft properly, make sure you have a proven reliable engine and go for it. Well microman Just by maintaining your aircraft properly and having a reliable engine isn't going to keep you alive Having the right approach, attitude, respect & discipline towards flying will keep you alive far longer than any engine will 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I'm getting the picture; Every plane crash was just some idiot who wasn't experienced, couldn't fly worth a damn, didn't follow procedure or do a pre-flight. You guys are bulletproof obviously - just like your engines. simple...when the chute deploys just be upside down and falling......you'll become a pre wrapped omelette.... There has been actual deaths directly attributed to the wearing of seatbelts. Jochen Rindt the 1970 Formula 1 World Champion was killed by his seatbelt but it's not imaginable for a racing car not to have them. Everything will offer some alternate situation but it's the majority effect that should be concentrated on. I'm choosing to install one, others won't. Wait 'til I've done my US trip. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Several years ago we had a Drifter which was fitted with a BRS which was about to reach it's use by date when the owner/instructor asked if anyone of our experienced pilot group would like to try it out to see how it performed so I offered. I climbed to 1,000 feet above the airfield (nil wind conditions), did all my checks, switched off the engine, reached for that little red handle...........then changed my mind and did a dead stick landing. I just couldn't pluck up the courage however, I would have in the case of a structural failure. I could have re-started the engine but the exercise was useful anyway. Alan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 .....Jochen Rindt the 1970 Formula 1 World Champion was killed by his seatbelt ..... Please Bex, when you use facts to support your argument, please present all the relevant facts. Jochen Rindt was killed when his car swerved under braking and ran at high speed into a crash barrier at Monza. His car was fitted with a 5 point harness but Jochen chose not to wear the crotch harness. When he hit the barrier his body submarined under the harness and he suffered serious fatal injuries. Did the seatbelt kill him? Did Colin Chapman's engineering kill him? Did the crash kill him? Did his decision not to use the racing harness correctly kill him? All were factors in his death. To attribute hi death to just one of those factors is oversimplification at its worst. An Italian court later found that the accident was initiated by a failure of the car's right front brake shaft but that Rindt's death was caused by poorly installed crash barriers. (ref: Nye, Doug (1986). Autocourse history of the Grand Prix car 1966–85. Hazleton publishing. ISBN 0-905138-37-6.) 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Wait 'til I've done my US trip. Sounds like you could do me a job lot Bex - engine and BRS! Does the FWF come with that too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Testing back up chute. Was any one at Tyagarah back in 84 or so when the US demo pilot for Quicksilver was there? He climbed up to height and actually cut a lift wire then deployed the BRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 How can it cost $20k to service when you can buy one for $6k? The Cirrus has MTOW of 3400 lbs, that requires a big chute. It also has a rocket motor for deployment and that has to come out on a ship from the US as dangerous goods. The chute and rocket have to be cut out of the fuselage and then refitted and fuselage fixed and painted. Being an upmarket product I'm guessing they didn't go with the cheapest tender for the equipment either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Some people put a Artificial Horizon in their plane in case they might need it one day. I think if you don't have one you remove the temptation to push on when you shouldn't. Of course different if you are current IFR and have the correct equiped plane. In the UK, we have, in the past had avoidable accidents due to highly experienced pilots "punting" between VFR and IMC flight, just because they used to have, or still had an instrument rating, and flight through cloud presented no apparent fear, due to their massive training. . . . This attitude is fine if you are flying at IFR levels, using IFR safety principles, but it isn't a good idea at all of you are buzzing around the Scottish Highlands at low level., swip-swapping between bits of clear air and low cloud. . . . this is not one kind of flying or another, it's been shown over time to be a recipe for disaster. There's nothing wrong with having a sperry, / artificial horizon gyro on your panel, I've found these quite useful over the years, as someday, if you fly a lot, one day, you WILL curse yourself for not having one, even if it's just to carry out a nice, level, balanced 180 to get yourself the hell out of it. Temptation to exceed your personal limits shouldn't really come into the argument in my view,. . . If you always fly like a plonker,. . .then no amount of instrumentation or training is going to help you because you'll always bee keen to fly in crap and put yourself in harm's way,. . . .NO,. . ..if you can afford one, and the regulations allow you to fit one,. . .and you can find a space on your panel. . . . get the credit card out. . . . No offence meant Teck,. . . . I just don't agree. . . . nor you Ozzie mate. . . . but I still like you both ( ! ) But if Turbo or Kasper come up with some damning statistics which favour your argument,,. . then, following a trip to Melbourne, I will bare my bum on Bourke street. until then, . . . . . Pedantism R Phil. Oh, and Ozzie,. . .add to your list,. . . . "Don't forget to carry a stick. . ." ( See "Wide Brown Land" in "off topic" ! ) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev17ifly2 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Another thread in this forum is the tragic death of two wonderful people who crashed their trike at Glen Innes. The aircraft was fitted with a BRS but for whatever reason it was not deployed. Mandating a mechanical solution is not the answer. I think Alf is on the right track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest john Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Confucious say:" The more firma the less terra" so stay on the ground & prevent yourself from being mowed down by a bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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