Roundsounds Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Some "interesting" stuff in the latest E-News: "The objective is to reopen dialogue and refocus members on the need for Human Factors when flying aircraft and in their decision making." I would suggest Human Factors features in all flights, maybe there's room for an improvement in Human Factors, particularly in the decision making processes? "After several fatal accidents in the initial six months of 2015 we undertook a high level analysis of the fatal accidents that have occurred over the last 5 years and identified that a majority of them are Human Factor related and as such there was a necessity for immediate awareness in this area." Human Factors, or Non-Technical Skills (NTS) to use the latest jargon, covers many areas of behaviour. It would be interesting to learn exactly what areas need improving. I'm wondering whether the organisation has the expertise to analyse the data and identify the precise NTS requiring improvement? Just saying we need to improve Human Factors is like telling pilots not to crash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Some "interesting" stuff in the latest E-News:"The objective is to reopen dialogue and refocus members on the need for Human Factors when flying aircraft and in their decision making." I would suggest Human Factors features in all flights, maybe there's room for an improvement in Human Factors, particularly in the decision making processes? "After several fatal accidents in the initial six months of 2015 we undertook a high level analysis of the fatal accidents that have occurred over the last 5 years and identified that a majority of them are Human Factor related and as such there was a necessity for immediate awareness in this area." Human Factors, or Non-Technical Skills (NTS) to use the latest jargon, covers many areas of behaviour. It would be interesting to learn exactly what areas need improving. I'm wondering whether the organisation has the expertise to analyse the data and identify the precise NTS requiring improvement? Just saying we need to improve Human Factors is like telling pilots not to crash. Precisely. Pilots may frequently be able to avoid crashes by having a good knowledge of Human Factors and Aviation Medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Pilots may frequently be able to avoid crashes by having a good knowledge of Human Factors and Aviation Medicine. . . . agreed Sir. . . + pertaining flight information, licensing, and specific regulations + aircraft technical, + flight weather appraisal, + navigation, + general all round airmanship, + a healthy dose of humility and common sense. . . ( + a reasonably healthy bank balance. . . ! ) Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 "flustered" is as good a word as any for the inability to think broadly when you are focussed on an immediate stressor. For example, when dealing with marginal VMC, you can forget to do or check other things. This can go on for half an hour or more, for example, running a tank dry. My own experience and others is to look back and be amazed at what you forgot to do or check, or information that would have been useful but you forgot it under pressure. I don't know the answer, but the more recent flying you have done, the better you cope. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I have to agree with that x 100 PM,. . .I like to "DO DISTANCE STUFF" with a co-perpetrator, who, incidentally, doesn't have to be a licensed pilot, but someone capable of taking down notes when asked, filling in my pre-prepared "PLOG" and this makes for a really pleasant and stress-free flight. Especially if things go "hairy" against all forecast and expectation. I'm sure most of us have been THERE. Did a bit of ferry flying down into Europe in the early 80s, and it was always much better to have a cohort on board. . .and on the few occasions that things went sour, once, when I was solo flying and the weather went seriously bad, I had to work out another diversion, as the ones I'd got just were not going to work. . . . things get very busy. On one particular occasion, I am very glad I had the use of a single axis (wing leveller in the PA28 R200 ) to keep the bloody thing upright whilst I thumbed through airfield directories and frequency lists, and sorted what airspace requirements were needed. . . . all in total IMC . . . Which, incidentally and admittedly,. . . I should not have been flying in anyway. . .I was sweating like a stuck pig by the time I landed at the Alternate I'd picked . . .near the Alps, which was why I was crapping myself at getting stuck in IMC ! ! ! ( No Satnav then ! ) - AND got stuck for 2 days whilst an "Unseasonal" weather front passed thru. . .! It's a Good job I LOVE French food and people. . .( I didn't eat any people though, on this trip anyway ) To be fair, I was taking flight information service in French,. . . . my French improved markedly after that trip. Most subsequent trips were carried out using a proper "First Officer" conned by promises of free snap and beer etc. . . . and this really DOES make for a much greater level of safety and comfort. . . .the ONLY probelm with taking a passenger of "equivalent" experience and qualification,. . .is all the bloody ARGUMENTS about the best way to do this and that. . .jeeeze. . . . save me from people who know what they are doing. . . .! The last one was a bloody 737 F/O, who thought he was Gawds gift to aviation,. . . young twot. . . but had never flown the type before ( Tee HEE ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Geez! If I was going to the south of France, I'd take a hornbag and tell the missus I needed a safety observer. OME 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Geez! If I was going to the south of France, I'd take a hornbag and tell the missus I needed a safety observer.OME YES,. . .I lived in Australia for a number of years, ( in fact more than a decade ) but. . ."HORNBAG" Yer got me there cobber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Hornbag - A Melbourne-dialogue Bogan word for sexy woman. OME 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 AAAAAAHHHHHH. . . . Now I understand. . . . .what you tried to say to me. . . .how you . . .OOPS that's a Don Mclean song. . . . . I see. . . .being a bit thick, ( And knowing YOU ) I shoulda worked that one out ! Some years back ( oh no,. . .here we go again. . .) my Wife's best mate Elaine,. . . (a divorcee, around ten years younger than the pair of us and bloody drop dead sodding bloody gorgeous, ooooooh. . . .) told Angie ( the cheese 'n' kisses ) that her new "Boyfriend" had offered her a free holiday, all paid for by him,. . to Southern Spain for two weeks. . .I said, "er, OK, what's the problem ?" the Missus says, "well, she's never been in an aeroplane before,. . .ever. . . . and she's terrified about flying to Spain. . . .and I thought, . . .well,. . .could YOU take her flying, just to show her that it's OK please, as she doesn't want to upset the bloke, since they only met two weeks ago and she really LIKES him . . . " This,. . . .from the woman who has NEVER EVER flown with me. . . EVER, . . .as SHE doesn't like flying either. . . . I said, "OK, I could probably borrow dave's 172, that;s a nice, stable plane, I'll give him a call. . ." No good,. . .plane gone tech. . . .tried both the local airfields, nothing available for a while. . .other than twins, at £275.00 per hour, and I wasn't twin current anyway. . . SO. . .I ended up taking her up in my Gemini Flash 2 Flexwing Trike. Wrapped up like the michelin man in my spare, oversized Ozee suit, with helmet and visor,. . .I thought she'd pack death, but she absolutely LOVED every minute ( it WAS very calm ) . .she astonished me by being to navigate by PUBS. . .? She'd have a look and say, ahh,. . .that's the Rag at Wimblebury,. . .and look there, that's the Lamb and Flag at Hednesford,. . .oooh look,. . .there's the Windmill near Castle ring ,. . . . and as we re-approached the airfield, she said,. . .oooh there's the Four Crosses at Hatherton. . . over the road from the Tumbledown farm Inn. . . . ."That's where I met me boyfriend. . . ." Jeeeze,,. . . .who needs a GPS ? . . . . you just need Elaine Armishaw. . . Genuine VFR PUBLIGATION. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Making safety a greater part of a culture and way of thinking is tough. This type of promotion, despite shortcomings, does work. I think currency is an issue in RAA, and could only show itself at times of stress. The whole thing makes a bit of sense now but this should have been released alongside the airfield pics with DAS and team. A whole parcel of criticisim could have been avoided 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 If you are current on the things that cause stress, you are flying on the edge. Sometimes it is the people who fly everyday who don't bother with checklists, but they are recent (and dangerous). There are always "nervous on a fine day" types, but I really wonder why they fly. It can't be fun for them You even find them in airlines. I'm a great believer in training. Not just for the sake of it, but if it is dumbed down too much you are not given the "tools" to save yourself when things go pear shaped. I have for a long time believed we should have a set of exercises to perform to stay at a good level of skill. Just doing the things you are comfortable with won't do. Remember the certificate standard is not the end of it It may have been close to the minimum standard to just be allowed to fly.... and if you drop below that... logically you shouldn't be flying. Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Some "interesting" stuff in the latest E-News:"The objective is to reopen dialogue and refocus members on the need for Human Factors when flying aircraft and in their decision making." I would suggest Human Factors features in all flights, maybe there's room for an improvement in Human Factors, particularly in the decision making processes? "After several fatal accidents in the initial six months of 2015 we undertook a high level analysis of the fatal accidents that have occurred over the last 5 years and identified that a majority of them are Human Factor related and as such there was a necessity for immediate awareness in this area." Human Factors, or Non-Technical Skills (NTS) to use the latest jargon, covers many areas of behaviour. It would be interesting to learn exactly what areas need improving. I'm wondering whether the organisation has the expertise to analyse the data and identify the precise NTS requiring improvement? Just saying we need to improve Human Factors is like telling pilots not to crash. Exactly which is why I then wrote back to them and asked them to explain what factors where relevant and why are they being kept secret... Two newsletters now and a big launch and not one peice of information that we can take with us into our next flight to keep us safer... If its so important tell us what and how to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 So what is the RAA going to do about the the "Human Factors" problem? The only real option is to make the BFR much much more comprehensive and harder to pass, that's not going to go down too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Perhaps we don't really understand what "human factors" is? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I think we know what it is, just not how to make it work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm a great believer in training. Not just for the sake of it, but if it is dumbed down too much you are not given the "tools" to save yourself when things go pear shaped. I have for a long time believed we should have a set of exercises to perform to stay at a good level of skill. Just doing the things you are comfortable with won't do. Nev Having a good knowledge of your aircraft 'systems 'and the consequences of their operation ,enables pilots to be in a better position to diagnose, and often rectify or isolate, in flight faults ...... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 According to CASA The term human factors refers to the wide range of issues affecting how people perform tasks in their work and non-work environments.The study of human factors involves applying scientific knowledge about the human body and mind, to better understand human capabilities and limitations so that there is the best possible fit between people and the systems in which they operate. Human factors knowledge can be used to reduce the likelihood of errors and at the same time build more error tolerant, and therefore more resilient, systems. Human factors are the social and personal skills (for example, communication and decision making) which complement technical skills, and are important for safe and efficient aviation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 So what is the RAA going to do about the the "Human Factors" problem? The only real option is to make the BFR much much more comprehensive and harder to pass, that's not going to go down too well. I don't know this is the answer? You cannot fix a problem if you don't know what the exact problem is. Most initial "Human Factors" learning is done on the ground. Practice can be completed by running through "what if" scenarios, this way you can develop your own method of dealing with situations. If you wait until the "what if" happens in flight, it's unlikely you'll come up with the best way of dealing with it. These scenarios could be delivered by properly trained facilitators or by video presentation at "hangar talk" sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 The problem is if you spend an hour on CASA website they don't clearly define it either...they have lots of legal documents for pointing the finger at organisations, but they have very little in in the way of actual suggestions that can make a real difference... One of the major problems I see in all areas of aviation, is everything is so over complicated, that only those flying for a living can even retain 1/5th of the rules, regulation, procedures, skills and processess. Thus the only way CASA and RAA can make a real difference to us is to break it down into manageable chunks that are desperately needed. You cant teach a kid basketball , if you sit them down and give them 50 years of basketball history, every stat ever fromt he game, every skill, every tactic, every cheat available etc...you get the point... The human brain can only retain so much information. The key to retaining information is training, repetition and continued learning. The problem we face as recreational and even GA pilots is this is only one small part of our complicated and busy lives. While we are making it a focus to pass exams , we attain a certain standard, but as soon as we go back to normal living we lose most of that knowledge ... The best thing CASA and RAA can do is work out whats really critical and reinforce reinforce reinforce those aspects after initial training has finished. Its the same in driving, first aid or any industry that's complicated or changes continually... the problem is though in aviation, is that they take a lecturing and enforcement approach, rather than a coaching and open approach... If CASA came up to you and asked hey tell me about your recent flying mistakes and what you suck at , you would shake in your boots and expect to have your licence revoked...where as when a sports coach does the same , most athletes willingly discuss what they need fixed and go about having it corrected. If they really want to change the Human Factors, they need a cultural change that focuses on being able to express your weaknesses, mistakes and medical issues without getting clubbed to death like a baby seal. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 or perhaps reviewing human factors information provided already.......didnt we all pass an exam? Safety issues such as this is largely about awareness that the factors exist and when you might fall foul of them. Constant regular reminders is part of changing culture to be more cautious and careful. More "what if" thinking, maybe a quick run through a HF checklist. CASA has been pushing this for ages - Am I ready to fly If someone sees a CFI getting around airstrip in flouro jacket with the logo and thinks for just a few seconds more about "am I really ready to fly" then the program on its way to helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 One suggestion would be a series of short videos that focus on known common problems and solutions... maybe 5 minutes each... mandate that you have to watch one or two every month... that way we stay current and they can supply us with crucial information that may just save our lives... If next month they discover lots of accidents are being caused by poor XYZ, they can alert us to the fact, require us to watch it and we all come out for the better... We dont need hundred thousand dollar hollywood productions , just the relevant information and a great solution In the marketing world we call them crunchy solutions...ie things that you can chew on, things that you immediately feel more empowered by...not theory. Eg: For clients with high blood pressure in stressful jobs we advise that they Take the steps at least two floors every time before getting in the elevator That they stand when on stressful phone calls and that they walk at least 200m every time they feel and adrenaline rush... There is an example of a known problem and three crunchy solutions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I wrote to the CEO about the latest human factors problems. I do not understand what human factors are and it has not been explained. I think they are what we used to call airmanship, but I may be wrong. To solve any problems with human factors i would think that they should be defined, in plain English, not technobabble. It does no good for someone to say human factors is failing if the rest of us do not know what they are talking about. The RAAus could publish all the fatalities causes and then explain what was done incorrectly and then we may get some idea of what they are talking about. Personally I have been around too long to be interested in using new words to explain old and well understood ideas. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I would say the human factor that makes people think they can deliberatly break the rules such as low flying and not maintining VMC is a major contributor to the accident rate. These can of course occur unintentionally but those deliberately pushing it are a problem. How you fix this part of human nature is a question not many have the answer to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 All good discussion .Do you give yourself a a debrief after each flight? Doesn't have to be straight away. IF I did that flight again what could I do better? Relate it to decisions affecting the conduct of the flight. (Management, rather than how good your landing was.). Should I have considered diverting to X aerodrome because of the crosswinds at Y? Did I make sure I landed with Both tanks selected? Was my load tied down well enough? I didn't feel too good . Should I have come back tomorrow? Nev 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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