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My spies tell me Jabiru has been sold

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kgwilson Well-known member

kgwilson

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13 hours ago, RFguy said:

Mike,  it gets lighter with the rotax.... can have some ballast removed from the tail...

The weight of a Rotax 912 ULS including its exhaust, radiator, coolant etc is 194.69 lbs from the Zenith website not including the airbox. The weight of a Jabiru Gen 4 with everything except the airbox is 180 lbs. Why do you seem to think a Rotax is lighter? You cant use it without all the coolant and parts.

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Paul davenport
Paul davenport

Key board warriors strike again as so often happen the original question was about Jabiru factory ownership and it’s wandered every where but the original topic   I don’t care what your stall speed is

facthunter
facthunter

Jabiru got caught once with it's engine supplier KFM,getting out of the market and had to make it's own. Their engine is now better than ever, simple and cheap and light weight.. .  Rod's put in enoug

facthunter
facthunter

Way off topic. Sorry but there needs to be some limit. The Jabiru is not a rare aircraft for a reason. People choose to buy them in a competitive market. Without them we would have been much worse off

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BrendAn Well-known member

BrendAn

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1 hour ago, kgwilson said:

 

The weight of a Rotax 912 ULS including its exhaust, radiator, coolant etc is 194.69 lbs from the Zenith website not including the airbox. The weight of a Jabiru Gen 4 with everything except the airbox is 180 lbs. Why do you seem to think a Rotax is lighter? You cant use it without all the coolant and parts.

my lsa 55 had the oil tank beside the fuel tank and the battery behind the fuel tank so it didn't have a ventral fin counterweight either.

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Bruce Tuncks Well-known member

Bruce Tuncks

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Yep, the old SK has been sold and I now have a newer 230 in the hangar here at Edenhope. However the old SK has not been collected yet and it is still in the hangar, minus it's wings to take up less room.

Right now, I am busy fixing things on the old sk anyway. Just yesterday, I noticed that the nose-wheel was flat...  I dunno how this happened with it just sitting in the hangar!  So now I have ordered a new tube.

The other jobs are re-instating the tail-fin, following an enlarging experiment, and fixing the cht/egt setup that just stopped working too...

The new owner of 19-3497 is Rowan Hill, and he lives in Qld. I hope he comes down and flies the pants off the old Jabiru, before taking it back home to Qld.

 

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BrendAn Well-known member

BrendAn

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18 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Yep, the old SK has been sold and I now have a newer 230 in the hangar here at Edenhope. However the old SK has not been collected yet and it is still in the hangar, minus it's wings to take up less room.

Right now, I am busy fixing things on the old sk anyway. Just yesterday, I noticed that the nose-wheel was flat...  I dunno how this happened with it just sitting in the hangar!  So now I have ordered a new tube.

The other jobs are re-instating the tail-fin, following an enlarging experiment, and fixing the cht/egt setup that just stopped working too...

The new owner of 19-3497 is Rowan Hill, and he lives in Qld. I hope he comes down and flies the pants off the old Jabiru, before taking it back home to Qld.

 

i rang you about the sk but the other bloke beat me to it. that must have been at least 18 months ago.

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djpacro Well-known member

djpacro

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On 04/11/2023 at 11:05 AM, facthunter said:

What sort of pilot would use full control deflection other than flick manoeuvres or when 3 pointing  or sideslipping? ........ Can you explain why nose up comes into it? (serious question)?.  ..... .  Nev 

1. When doing that stuff is when full control deflection is used .... so pilots must know the associated limitations. Some obviously don't eg 

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/39811

 

2. As you know, G limits are generally much less in the nose down direction (negative G) so full down elevator, at an airspeed where full up elevator would not cause the positive G limit to be exceeded, will cause those negative G limits to be exceeded. Some notes on this at https://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com/airmanship/the-yellow-arc/ There is NOT a separate Va for negative Gs and the FAA didn't see it necessary to come up with a different Vo for negative Gs.

eg https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/news-items/2020/flight-control-confusion

 

Edited by djpacro
added the ATSB report on the Cessna 152
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RFguy Well-known member

RFguy

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That was a very interesting and thorough report, - the wing analysis.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422ebbb40f0b613460000a7/dft_avsafety_pdf_025533.pdf

 

essentially, the only think that could cause the wing outer to fail was the simultaneous input of pitch and roll, a quickly rotated  and pushed or pulled yoke, (putting it into some 2 axis rotation)  and then the corresponding 2 axis reversal  (that breaks the structure) . 

 

"It is, perhaps, less well understood that large control surface deflections, applied simultaneously or in rapid sequence in more than one axis, are far more damaging than such inputs applied individually. When such single or multi-axis inputs are applied and rapidly reversed, even higher loadings result. Although the manoeuvre speed, Va, is described as the speed above which full deflection of aileron or rudder or approach to the stall should not take place, it may not be appreciated amongst all pilots that flight at airspeeds below Va does not provide protection from control induced structural failure. Should excessive simultaneous and/or reversed large control deflections be applied, the results can be catastrophic, as in the case of G-BKCB. This is all the more significant when it is noted that the structural strength of the wing of this aircraft type in download, far exceeds the requirement specified for its certification."

 

 

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jackc Well-known member

jackc

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On 7/11/2023 at 5:37 AM, leslloyd said:

So Gen 4 still can't match Rotax in overall terms i gather,i sold a 230 because of the constant verbal crap associated with ownership,

pity as it was a joy to fly otherwise.

 

I don't care what gets said about them, I will keep mine until I go to my grave.

Mine hauls my sorry arse around the sky, well enough for me 🙂 

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Kenlsa Well-known member

Kenlsa

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Mick visited Gawler on Saturday and was part way through an Australia wide trip speaking to pilots and answering questions. I had to leave early but he said:

 

230 and 430 will be factory manufactured at 760kg

170 will continue and 230 @ 600 as well

Gen 3 parts will be manufactured for all that have that engine can relax

working on a Gen 5 engine BUT it MAY be electric

will include analog instruments for those that want them to keep everything simple for people like me

he is a pilot and so is his daughter 

all the staff are remaining

he is the MD at a major military supplier but can not divulge any more details about the products.

 

 I Had to leave then but Jabiru 7252 then arrived so may be able to shed some light on any further detail.

 

Sounds all good to me

 

 

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kgwilson Well-known member

kgwilson

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I like the fact that you can opt for Steam gauges. The 230 price has skyrocketed lately largely due to the cost of all that glass & flash instrumentation plus the commitment to Gen 3 spares is a good reassuring statement. Continuous improvement is the best option engine wise, rather that a complete new generation especially as petrol powered ICE engines are in the twilight years of their existence.

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BrendAn Well-known member

BrendAn

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40 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

I like the fact that you can opt for Steam gauges. The 230 price has skyrocketed lately largely due to the cost of all that glass & flash instrumentation plus the commitment to Gen 3 spares is a good reassuring statement. Continuous improvement is the best option engine wise, rather that a complete new generation especially as petrol powered ICE engines are in the twilight years of their existence.

i would not be too quick to write off ice engines. electric has a long long way to go to even come close to replacing them. that pipestral electric trainer is a good example.

140 kg in batteries and 25 minute flight times.

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kgwilson Well-known member

kgwilson

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I'm not writing anything off. I still fly my Jab 3300 powered aircraft and will continue to as long as I can. Venture capitalists look in to the future and it is not with fossil fuelled technologies. They will not invest in those industries any more. There are massive strides in renewable technologies and batteries are only one part of the equation. If only 2% of the new inventions & proposals get up they will blow everything we are currently at (including what's in my new EV) out of the water and on to the scrap heap of history. The transition will continue for decades. That is if we don't destroy everything first.

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jackc Well-known member

jackc

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13 hours ago, kgwilson said:

I like the fact that you can opt for Steam gauges. The 230 price has skyrocketed lately largely due to the cost of all that glass & flash instrumentation plus the commitment to Gen 3 spares is a good reassuring statement. Continuous improvement is the best option engine wise, rather that a complete new generation especially as petrol powered ICE engines are in the twilight years of their existence.

3 years ago I was looking for a new aircraft,  one of my many aviation moments and never did buy new.  Instead, I went second hand with a view to upgrade later.

Went personally to the Brumby Factory at Cowra and looked, sat in their demo Brumby,  looked the goods everywhere…..but was told NO steam, NO way and that was the end of that. Out the door I went.  My original training aircraft had steam gauges, due to COVID I had to change schools, choices all had Dynon screens…..nope, not interested.  I wont own a car with screen displays, I managed to get a Mahindra ute with no digital screen, will be my last new vehicle.

All I need in an aircraft is to know how high, I am , how fast I am going , how much fuel I have and what direction I am flying in. A radio is a good thing, too 🙂 

Engine gauges?  If they go awry at 5000ft on a flight, you will probably soon be a Glider Pilot, just fly your freaking plane……in silence while you look a place to land 🙂 

Lots of technology is not always better…..look what rhe Wright Bros got away with 🙂 


 

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