RocketShip Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 At the very least, they have to offer a Rotax as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I expect they would sell a ton of J230 airframes with a 3 blade 912ULS in them. and 914/915 as a upmarket option. although these days, there are many composite competitors snapping at their heels. It's not a complete shoe-in. assuming same thrustline and prop location (as I had), cowling needs to be bulged a bit on front lower to accomodate the exhaust headers from the front two cylinders.. not too much work really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketShip Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 My thoughts exactly. J230 with the Rotax 912ULS, also as you suggest the 914/915. Would be the best touring aircraft around, for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenaroo Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 i don't know if the low stall speeds are all they are cracked up to be. remember swapping from the Jabiru to the Vixen. sure in theory the Vixen had a lower stall speed and better short field - but get the airspeed wrong and it floated down the whole runway, get it wrong in the Jab, she would still slow so often rescuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 20 hours ago, skippydiesel said: Faeta (Rotax 912ULS) will cruise at 134 knots(18-10L/hr) & stall at 27 knots (thanks to Fowler flaps & an empty weight of sub 300kg). I think your stall speed figures are a little rosy, going by the POH on their website. You seem to be confusing IAS and CAS and ignoring weight. They list a stall speed of 28 knots IAS, which is 31 knots CAS. Adjust for weight and the equivalent speed would be 36 knots at 600 kg. Certainly good, but calling it 27 or 28 knots is an unreasonable comparison. For listed cruise speed Atec seem to be a bit unclear whether its TAS or CAS or IAS. It seems to be TAS, although from their airspeed correction table 134 knots IAS is 124 knots CAS so IAS ends up close to TAS at a few thousand feet anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul davenport Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Key board warriors strike again as so often happen the original question was about Jabiru factory ownership and it’s wandered every where but the original topic I don’t care what your stall speed is how short you land and all the other erroneous waffle some of you espouse I have owned 2 Jabiru’s and think they are fantastic, local owned good value . I hope if the rumours are correct it stays in Australian hands to those of you who entered the conversation in the spirit it was intended thank you 4 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NME Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Refer Page 70 of RAAus Australian SportPilot mag which arrived in the post today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area-51 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Just buy a Europa; does everything, will continue doing everything, and did it all over 20 years ago. Perfect student training aircraft; capable of all manoeuvres. Including ground loops, retractable, tail wheel first STOL entry, one wheel landings (every time!), and more! High survival rate, and student will graduate ready to confidently command all and any high performance modern slower LSA type aircraft or High Speed military personal fighter jet. Get yours today! While stocks last! (conditions apply) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Paul davenport said: Key board warriors strike again as so often happen the original question was about Jabiru factory ownership and it’s wandered every where but the original topic I don’t care what your stall speed is how short you land and all the other erroneous waffle some of you espouse I have owned 2 Jabiru’s and think they are fantastic, local owned good value . I hope if the rumours are correct it stays in Australian hands to those of you who entered the conversation in the spirit it was intended thank you Your loyalty is commendable & yes they are a big bang for the $$$ however as someone who has time (true not a lot - did my GA/RAA conversion in them) in Jabs and then went on to fly othe light aircraft, I find the Jabs to have little control feel, underwhelming performance, in short dull. You may as well be flying a C172 without all the benefits of space/payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 3 hours ago, aro said: I think your stall speed figures are a little rosy, going by the POH on their website. You seem to be confusing IAS and CAS and ignoring weight. They list a stall speed of 28 knots IAS, which is 31 knots CAS. Adjust for weight and the equivalent speed would be 36 knots at 600 kg. Certainly good, but calling it 27 or 28 knots is an unreasonable comparison. For listed cruise speed Atec seem to be a bit unclear whether its TAS or CAS or IAS. It seems to be TAS, although from their airspeed correction table 134 knots IAS is 124 knots CAS so IAS ends up close to TAS at a few thousand feet anyway... ATEC's sales focus is the European market, so most of their performance figures are for that jurisdictions. In Australia they have a demonstrated stall of 27-30 knots (depending on variant), a high speed cruise of 134 knots, 50L x 2 wing tanks and a MTW of 600kg. To the best of my knowledge only one other factory supplied/built aircraft has a comparable performance envelope - the Pipistrel Virus SW (both powered by Rotax 912ULS - other engines may be available). I stand to be corrected however believe that all figures are at MTW & air speeds are TAS. For further details contact the Australasian Distributer - Dexter Burkill https://www.atecplanes.com.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueadventures Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, skippydiesel said: ATEC's sales focus is the European market, so most of their performance figures are for that jurisdictions. In Australia they have a demonstrated stall of 27-30 knots (depending on variant), a high speed cruise of 134 knots, 50L x 2 wing tanks and a MTW of 600kg. To the best of my knowledge only one other factory supplied/built aircraft has a comparable performance envelope - the Pipistrel Virus SW (both powered by Rotax 912ULS - other engines may be available). I stand to be corrected however believe that all figures are at MTW & air speeds are TAS. For further details contact the Australasian Distributer - Dexter Burkill https://www.atecplanes.com.au/ POH from factory for info, flight-manual-atec-322-faeta.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul davenport Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 And all this has what to do with he original post 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I might add on the Va thing, while its accepted Va can calculated by taking the clean stall speed multiplied by the squareroot of the load factor, In the example I used above of the ATEC, that was the designed load factor (3.8g normal category ). HOWEVER If the aircraft did not break say until 8g, then the designer might use that value in the calculation of Va (but the FAA might not like it) . In the book , Faeta NG is given at 600kg, Vs1 of 40 kts. and 4G limit. which implies a Va of sqrt(4) * 40 = 80 kts. If the aircraft didnt actually fail until say, 8G, the mfr might write down 113 kts. That might be OK for LSA, but for a Part 91 aircraft , the FAA wouldnt accept that (is my reading). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, RFguy said: I might add on the Va thing, while its accepted Va can calculated by taking the clean stall speed multiplied by the squareroot of the load factor, In the example I used above of the ATEC, that was the designed load factor (3.8g normal category ). HOWEVER If the aircraft did not break say until 8g, then the designer might use that value in the calculation of Va (but the FAA might not like it) . In the book , Faeta NG is given at 600kg, Vs1 of 40 kts. and 4G limit. which implies a Va of sqrt(4) * 40 = 80 kts. If the aircraft didnt actually fail until say, 8G, the mfr might write down 113 kts. That might be OK for LSA, but for a Part 91 aircraft , the FAA wouldnt accept that (is my reading). Has there ever been a break up test of a Recreational Aircraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 I think they all just load the airframe at the calculated G load and see if it breaks...then load it to more until it does..mainly just wings and stab are loaded in the videos I have seen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 10 hours ago, skippydiesel said: ATEC's sales focus is the European market, so most of their performance figures are for that jurisdictions. In Australia they have a demonstrated stall of 27-30 knots (depending on variant) Demonstrated by who? The air is the same in Europe and Australia. The only way to do this would be to have a totally different wing. (We are talking CAS, not the number you see on the air speed indicator.) 10 hours ago, Blueadventures said: POH from factory for info, Well what do you know... stall speed is 35.8 knots at 580kg. 14 hours ago, aro said: Adjust for weight and the equivalent speed would be 36 knots at 600 kg. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) The air is different in Europe, the air they breath and fly in is denser by being subsidised as extra 0.3kg per cubic meter by taxpayers , leading to a lack of world competetiveness, and aircraft that can only meet their specifications in european air. Edited August 21, 2023 by RFguy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Way off topic. Sorry but there needs to be some limit. The Jabiru is not a rare aircraft for a reason. People choose to buy them in a competitive market. Without them we would have been much worse off. Nev 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFguy Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Today, in email conversation with Jabiru regarding current engine delivery (about 9 months for a Gen 4 3300 is the answer) I have asked the question about the company sale.... No response, so far. We'll see. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I'm interested to hear anything on-topic, but so far no-one is posting anything more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
440032 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Okay, I can officially announce here "I bought Jabiru." Sorry, "I bought a Jabiru, (engine)." There, rumours put to bed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 hours ago, aro said: Demonstrated by who? The air is the same in Europe and Australia. The only way to do this would be to have a totally different wing. (We are talking CAS, not the number you see on the air speed indicator.) Well what do you know... stall speed is 35.8 knots at 580kg. Talk to Dexter - he did his own testing. Also - ATEC are a rare beast, in the small aircraft production world, in that they are conservative in their performance claims - the Faeta T tail stalls at 27 knots,the NG at 30 knots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 So, Who owns jabiru then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenaroo Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) How many aircraft manufacturers are in Victoria? my guess is GippsAero who are apparently backed by Mahindra Edited August 22, 2023 by spenaroo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 "Owned by" I believe. I have no contacts there now but I was told Keeping the old managers on doesn't help . That's a while back and any news would be useful. . There'd be plenty of places in Victoria where that business could operate from. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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