motzartmerv Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 So Motz , for me its not about fear it was more of a prompt to learn and understand more........just me though. JimG Why wasn't the info you "learned" involved in the video? Or the seminar that accompanied it? 2.58 seconds of education is much better than 2.58 seconds of fear mongering, in the hope you go off and learn something that they could have just spent 2.58 seconds teaching you in the first place..:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I like the video, but why do these accidents keep happening?????????? Because humans by nature are fallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 And if you dont, you will be dead in 178 seconds. To make it longer than 178 seconds, people may need to buy a little book which I have which I think is really useful. It's called "IFR for VFR Pilots - An Exercise in Survival" Now, B.T.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 With planes like we fly for fun and simplicity, IF you must be somewhere at a specific time, fly airlines or use the train. You must be prepared to "fly tomorrow", or the flight today may be your last. Lot's of pilots think that they will know which way is up if they enter cloud. The trouble is they won't know. Most planes spiral and go down fast, starting with a gradual turn and then a slight loss of altitude then the stick pulled back a bit and the "G" forces start and the ROD goes through the roof. It's not called "graveyard spiral" for nothing. Cloud is the same as fog. It's like being inside a bottle of diluted milk and there is no up or down.Only the seat of your pants and the circular canals in your inner ear, but they misinform you as to what is actually happening. When you pull out of a sustained turn , you feel that you are turning the other way. a steady turn feels like straight and level, once you settle into it, so these things which normally help us have to be disregarded and the instruments trusted and used exclusively.Even if you have done a lot of it, unless you are in recent experience you are unlikely to do a very good job, and a bad one is usually the end. Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 The Recreational Flying Pilot Shop has had that book for a long time and it has always been very popular: http://www.recreationalflying.com/pilot_supplies/ifr-for-vfr-pilots.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 A friend of mine (Spin) told me a saying once and it has stuck with me since the day he said it. "Time to spare, go by air". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 "Time to spare, go by air". Add to that - If you must arrive, you better drive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 That is a great one Mick. Im pinching it.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 The Recreational Flying Pilot Shop has had that book for a long time and it has always been very popular:http://www.recreationalflying.com/pilot_supplies/ifr-for-vfr-pilots.html I am glad you stock this book. It's definitely a potential lifesaver and worth getting, in my opinion. Speaking for my self I always plan an IFR route "I follow roads" that was the way I was told too stay alive alway keep a field or road close bye as an engine will stop just a matter of when ! So far in my 12 year behind a two stroke I have never had a engine fail me but I still fly as it will stop at anytime . " seem to work for me " Well said Doug, it's the "precautionary principle" you're espousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Moore Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My condolences to the family and friends. I did not know them but they sounded like an amazing group of people with an amazing aircraft that will be sorely missed around the many air show and fly-in circuits. I had a friend with a later model Dragon, amazing aircraft and a lot of fun, although the non feathering props always seemed a little worrying to me. What I can say is this, the instrument dash in the Dragon is very similar to that of the Auster, if it was a flight into IMC that caused the end result there would have been next to no way to maintain control, the aircraft moves about the sky a good 30-50 seconds ahead of the instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongie Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 aviate? be prepared to wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueadventures Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Ok, I am getting in late. But days ago I heard on the news that the EPRIB was triggered then turned off. Well, ok it was turned off. But when it was triggered, wouldn't they have got a fix on it and known where to look? Shutting up now. I'm sure that position would have been a datum, fully considered and the data used in all the search planning. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I like the video, but why do these accidents keep happening?????????? Because we are human that's why they keep happening, it will always happen to someone else, the sad part is you never know until it is too late that your Surname just changed to someone else. Condolences to all families involved. Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP503 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 You may be right Alf, I just wish that it wouldn't happen........ Some eerie coincidences I have noticed over the years with these type of accidents..............: The pilot is always ''Extremely accomplished, never took risks, so experienced, etc....'' ( which I am NOT disputing in Des' case!) The other, more frustrating coincidence is that nearly ALWAYS the day after, or second day after a CFIT accident, the day dawns bright blue, sunny glorious flying weather. For example, when a fellow flew his Drifter uneventfully from Boonah all the way down to Victoria then Tasmania, yet crashed and died trying to fly through Cunninghams Gap in IMC conditions (15nm from Boonah!) The next day was the most beautiful flying day you ever saw, and all the pilots joined the search for him flying in beautiful conditions....... I couldn't stop thinking, if he had just waited ONE more night at Warwick......He'd be flying home in this beautiful weather too....Just so sad. :-( 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 For example, when a fellow flew his Drifter uneventfully from Boonah all the way down to Victoria then Tasmania, yet crashed and died trying to fly through Cunninghams Gap in IMC conditions (15nm from Boonah!) Just so sad.:-( For example! As I understand it and recall it, this fellow phoned his wife before leaving for the final leg home and was told by his wife not to leave as it was raining at home and to wait until the weather improved! So why did he ignore the warning and decide to take off? It was reported at the time that people in a car, driving through Cunninghams Gap, saw the aircraft fly very low over head and disappear into the cloud! Be it a Drifter or any other aircraft, pilot in command is totaly responsible for the decision to take off and the duration of the flight. Frank. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think this accident has hit very close to home for many of us, just look at how many views this thread has - 14,500. The fact that Des and Riama were almost part of the furniture at so many Queensland events made them at least familiar if not actually known. For many of us who attended Monto, we flew in the same weather system that claimed these lives. It could so easily been us. I left Monto on Sunday not long before Maj ( about 1.00pm ) and we too "picked our way" through to the Boyne Valley which we followed home to Gladstone. There was a stage where my wife said "Let's go back". But by then I could see my way into the Boyne Valley so we pressed on. At that stage the cloud base was about 2800ft and if we had tracked direct the highest terrain was 3149ft. Here lies the value of having a good look at a chart at the planning stage and not just following a line on a GPS. It is a harsh & stark reminder to us all to fly within our limits. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP503 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Yep Frank, that is how it happened, I suppose it all comes down to decision making....... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Because humans by nature are fallible. Im guessing people dont know what Fallible means.It means that humans will make poor decisions and will always make poor decisions.You will never change that. It will always be there.Post #280 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Having 5 ATSB Peeps working on this accident, is a waste of resources.They are also saying 12 months for a out come. It took me 1 minutes to know the out come. Look at the accident footage. A tree with a broken top and major branches broken off.The wreckage is beneath said tree. The aircraft has come down in a near vertical dive.A high impact accident.Not scatted over wide area. Its not rocket science. It has came down in a steep dive.IE- loss of control of the aircraft. Probably in IMC. That is why I have said earlier that the ATSB may not investigate. Waste of Tax payers money IMO. PS- I have worked with the ATSB on a F111 crash.We all had a fair idea of what caused the accident, we just needed the evidence.We had the evidence in a few days.Which proved correct. The jets where flying a few days later after the accident. It shouldnt take 12 months or so later for the official report . ATSB will go through a standard operating procedure. Radar and radio reports.Eye witnesses. Is all the parts of the aircraft there in the wreckage.By that I mean, did the aircraft loose a wing or HS or a flight control before the accident. Etc. People need closure I guess. Just sayin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Im guessing people dont know what Fallible means.It means that humans will make poor decisions and will always make poor decisions.You will never change that. It will always be there.Post #280 Dazza, I cetainly wouldn`t argue with that! To put some perspective on it! Last Sunday,on the Bruce highway, a Prado and a Semi collided, killing 5 members of a family, in the Prado. Frank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Dazza, I cetainly wouldn`t argue with that! To put some perspective on it! Last Sunday,on the Bruce highway, a Prado and a Semi collided, killing 5 members of a family, in the Prado.Frank. That was very sad Frank.I watched that on the news. 5 lives gone in a instant.Life is lost in a heart beat. Please everybody be careful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 To make it longer than 178 seconds, people may need to buy a little book which I have which I think is really useful. It's called "IFR for VFR Pilots - An Exercise in Survival"[ATTACH=full]19326[/ATTACH]Now, B.T.T. I don't think this aircraft had the panel redundancies to qualify for IFR, but to give you an idea of how far we, in RA, are from IFR capability consider this: To qualify for an IFR Rating, a GA pilot has to have quite a lot of base experience in aircraft with hire costs well above the cost for RA. It will then cost him about $18,000.00 for the IFR Rating Training. This is a guide to the syllabus:http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/5_13_ap1.pdf The Rating requires a review test every two years, so that's a lot of re-cramming. From memory, and after looking for an hour (thanks again CASA), three hours IFR flying per month - so about $900.00 per month, is required to stay current. With that process in an IFR rated aircraft you'll be safe to fly in cloud. I've done the three hour PPL under the hood training, and that's deliberately tame to just give you a taste of the complications, but even at that level I don't think you'd have time to remember the cover on that book. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 4 little words i have seen on any discussion about weather closing in.........."Precautionary search and landing" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Ordering that book now, looks like a great read! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 You may be right Alf, I just wish that it wouldn't happen........Some eerie coincidences I have noticed over the years with these type of accidents..............: The pilot is always ''Extremely accomplished, never took risks, so experienced, etc....'' ( which I am NOT disputing in Des' case!) The other, more frustrating coincidence is that nearly ALWAYS the day after, or second day after a CFIT accident, the day dawns bright blue, sunny glorious flying weather. For example, when a fellow flew his Drifter uneventfully from Boonah all the way down to Victoria then Tasmania, yet crashed and died trying to fly through Cunninghams Gap in IMC conditions (15nm from Boonah!) The next day was the most beautiful flying day you ever saw, and all the pilots joined the search for him flying in beautiful conditions....... I couldn't stop thinking, if he had just waited ONE more night at Warwick......He'd be flying home in this beautiful weather too....Just so sad. :-( Another "coincidence" perhaps is that often accidents like this occur when flying home from an event... food for thought. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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