turboplanner Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Well you've sort of put a checkmate example, but normally you'd have the option to change direction slightly so your path cleared the little white cloud. In conditions where the rule will save you, often you'll see mist fingers coming down to nearby hills or even the ground, and 5000' or a couple of minutes travel to that point is a good "last chance for a turnback" to burn into your brain. For comfort and time to make decisions based on using your map to find low level escape routes, I'd probably double that. On a bad day it can be a bit like a washing machine up there. There's nothing like a layer of flat unbroken cloud just above the windscreen as far as the eye can see, and you just get used to that being stable (if it is) when you realise there are undulations in the ground level and the trees are coming up towards you then going down again. At that point the last thing you need is to notice a wall of mist ahead of you. It looks like you could go lower and get under it, but your training tells you you can't and the 5000' rule prevents you from going right in there and getting caught either by ground undulation, or a lowering of the cloudbase. This is just one scenario of many you can find yourself in after doing everything right with planning, and shows how a 5000' turn point gives you more options with the undulations, valleys, trees and cloud on those rare days where your number is hovering around being up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Yes, we are using the same correct reference but we have a different interpretation of the information in that reference.By way of an example, if an aircraft is lined up for takeoff at an airfield where the met report indicates CAVOK, but there is that small fluffy Cu with a base of 500'agl, tops at 3000' but it is sitting 4000m away, directly on centreline. There are no other clouds in the sky anywhere. Can we not takeoff and legally operate VFR because as soon as we get airborne, we will be within 5000m of that little cloud? The term CAVOK indicates a visibility greater than 10km, so VMC must prevail. An airfield can be CAVOK with scattered cloud being present, but with the visibility being greater than 10km. So the presence of cloud within 5000m does not necessarily reflect in the visibility measurement. Therefore, when CAVOK is reported, flight under the VFR is legal, as long as you remain "clear of cloud" while operating in those VMC conditions. "Clear of cloud" means exactly that. At or below 3000' AMSL or 1000' AGL whichever is the higher the rule is 5000m visibility, clear of cloud and in sight of ground or water so that little cloud doesn't matter, you just fly around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_S Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 You know your a weekend pilot when you work all week under clear blue skies only to sit there weeping into your Friday beers as the wind picks up, the clouds roll in, the rain starts to fall and the forecast in 5 knots variable , cavok,,,,,,FOR MONDAY ...now how did I guess you were also from Melbourne....... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyvulcan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 At or below 3000' AMSL or 1000' AGL whichever is the higher the rule is 5000m visibility, clear of cloud and in sight of ground or water so that little cloud doesn't matter, you just fly around it. Exactly, whether you miss it by a foot or a mile is irrelevant from the legality perspective. You are still operating within the scope of the VFR. However, the airmanship perspective may be totally different and as an IFR aircraft exiting that cloud to find Bloggsy filling my windscreen, I'd be pretty pee'd off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Depends what you were looking at when you hit the brick wall - in some cases there are mitigating circumstances. Like two of them trying to escape from her singlet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Wonder if that's the same Lofty Mason who helped teach me to fly at Kyneton in the early 70's.To the RAAF he was(then) a nav but not a pilot, to the DCA he was a pilot but not a nav. Bureaucracy - ya gotta love it. I'd bet that it WAS the same Lofty,. . . .Kyneton isn't that far from Berwick and your time frame is bang on ! I never actually flew with him, but he waas a terrific Nav instructor / lecturer with a wicked sense of humour. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausadvance Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 you know your a weekend pilot when you can pull your plane up for 20 minutes of circuits for know other reason other than to go for a spin and still have a ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 ya know you are a weekend pilot when you have to slog your butt off all week to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You know you are a weekend pilot when you sit all weekend in the club house waiting for the weather to clear-and it does on Monday. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You know you're a weekend pilot when you're strapped in and ready to taxi, but suddenly remember the nosewheel chock. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 My first plane had strings attached to the chocks and I pulled then into the a/c-hand prop start. Some times after pulling real hard they would come whizzing at you like a bullet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You just know you're only a weekend pilot when...... in the last year, you put 10 hours in your logbook, 100 hours talking about flying to your mates, and 1000 hours on recreationalflying.com 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You know you're only a weekend pilot when, while waiting for the engine temps to come up, you look to your left and see the pitot cover still on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 You just Know you're only a weekend pilot when ........ Following a really THOROUGH pre-flight inspection, you load your nervous first time passenger into the Victa V-115 Airtourer, strap yourself into the commander's chair, secure the canopy, check the passengers' harness, very professionally complete all the pre-start checks, have a really good look around, yell out KLEEEAAAAR PROP ! . . . . . run up the engine, carefully watching all the T's and P's. . . . then, whilst giving your passenger a continuous "Reassurance" briefing on the forthcoming flight,. . . you steadily advance the throttle only to find the aeroplane spin around 180 degrees and stop with one wing and one mainwheel off the ground because you forgot about the tiedown rope on the right wingtip. ( True logbook extract . . . . . I'm not saying whose logbook. . . . . ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 You just Know you should've remained a weekend pilot when..... You very nearly attempted a take-off run in a dak with the elevator gust locks still fitted. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooda Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 You just Know you're only a weekend pilot when ........ You preflight your aircraft prior to your license test, note a smell of avgas while sitting in the LH seat waiting for the examiner but only realise you hadn't checked that the fuel valve had closed after you did the check for water when the examiner gets a drenching while entering the cabin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 As an ATC you can tell in be voices and actions who doesn't fly very often, as a pilot, when you hear traffic in the circuit making calls for the wrong end of he runway, or forgetting to put their gear down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Watch out fellow weekend warriors, I'll be out and about tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Same here! Pull back time 6am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Don't think they are worse than a helicopter. ( Which also has a mass under the wing). On a more serious note surely they will spiral? Nev Nev, Yep they will spiral and build up speed fairly quick, I surely wouldn't like to be in VMC conditions in one. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Same here! Pull back time 6am... Err.. Tomo....shouldn't that be `push back' time? I'll bet you've got HH's attention now. rgmwa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 "As an ATC you can tell in be voices and actions who doesn't fly very often, as a pilot, when you hear traffic in the circuit making calls for the wrong end of he runway, or forgetting to put their gear down." Are you at parafield?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Err.. Tomo....shouldn't that be `push back' time? I'll bet you've got HH's attention now.rgmwa Hey RGM. . . . Don't disregard Tomo's comment out of hand,. . . . . he could've meant . . . ." V3 .. Rotate" ( usualy requiring a slight Pull Back. . . .) ? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Err.. Tomo....shouldn't that be `push back' time? I'll bet you've got HH's attention now.rgmwa Yeah that's true, however I have to pull my plane out, not push it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Must have been a week end ATC at Darwin years ago when a Britten Norman Islander headed off for Moresby and the tower advised him that his gear was still down. When the pilot replied "Yes" .. ATC.. Are you returning for landing??? Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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