Bandit12 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Can any one tell me the engine horse power of the replica spitfire? It seems to me that they were designed for a 2000 hp engine, ie all engine, small wing, which would make them susceptible to a stall with a smaller hp engine going slow. Your thoughts?Condolences to the pilots family... They do have a much smaller engine, but also are very light in comparison to an original Spit, and then scaled down. No armour or weapons also reduces the weight drastically. I haven't heard of any structural failures. About the only thing they really have in common with a Spit is appearance, underneath it is a totally redesigned aircraft. Condolences to the family and friends, as well as those who sadly had to witness it. Sounds like the classic stall/spin, but we may learn more in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I saw the TV news segment on Youtube. Observation: There were no fire fighting units at the crash site. Question: Where was the fuel? OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Sorry compulsion, but was he attempting to turn right and then spun left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 As well as seeing the crash happen, the plane hit the ground about 1km from where I live! Hundreds of rubber neckers there, some in tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushcaddy105 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Engine is an Isuzu 6VE1 3.5 Litre V6 as used in the Holden RA Rodeo utes. 147 KW @ 5,400 rpm 280 Nm torque @ 3,000 rpm. These specs are straight from my ute's handbook. I don't know what reduction drive was fitted to Roger's engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REastwood Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 The Spitfire Mk26b is an exact copy of the spitfire. The guys who brought it back into production bought the plans and name from Supermarine. The first ones were a 70 or 75% scale, then 80% and the latest ones 90% (with an 80% wing). The Jabiru 8 cylinder motor (180hp) was designed for the kit, which is fitted to my fathers aircraft. With the Jabiru 180hp it is very nearly the same power to weight ratio as the Mark IX Spitfire. Most of the ones in Australia did fit the Isuzu or similar motor, but these had to be registered VH. Both Rogers and my fathers are the 80% kit. Actual spitfire pilots who have flown them say they handle very much like the bigger original ones. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clansman Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Was called late yesterday by my CFI with the awful news. I watched Roger taxi out at Murray Bridge on Saturday for a practice run for Sunday's show. As he went passed our hangar he waved to me from the cockpit with the side door in that classic down position you see on WW2 era film. I watched him take-off and the wheels retract in that graceful movement all spitfires have, and the last I saw of him was a fast pass along Rwy 20 at about 50' and the plane sounded perfect. Concidentally Roger was my boss in the old SA water works department till he left in the early 1980s to go consulting. He was a very well respected civil engineer in his day, and he was meticulous with his spitfire build. He even designed and built a hydraulic lift up hangar door so he could operate it with a remote from the cockpit. My condolences to his family, and to those of you were witnesses. Our flying fraternity is poorer for his loss. Vale Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compulsion Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The aircraft flew down wind. Then turned hard right (possibly 60deg bank) then flopped over to the left. I am thinking that the pilot turned right and realized he could not get back to the runway. I can only think that he turned back left to do a loop and get onto short final. This was all done close to the ground(possibly 500 feet or less) with wheels and flaps down and very slow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Sounds like a terrible day for you Compulsion. I hope you don't dwell on it too much, accidents happen. Remember, its probably going to take some time to forget. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Was it stalled in the right turn do you think. I k ow its hard to say but what are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 A sad loss for us all. It looks like the work on the Spit was first class, and she did look great in the air. Wouldn't rule out a bit of torque from the prop pushing one wing down, and the other into a stall. Also happens with the big ones if speed has decayed, and power is bought in quickly. Hence the 'torque' roll in the opposite direction to the turn. Condolences to all involved........................................................Maj... On witnessing accidents first hand:....I have been watching airshows since the late sixties, one of lifes pleasures I reckon, especially with a cold beer in hand !....I attended 12 Reno Air races in the 80s and 90s, and have still only ever seen one airshow crash, which was fatal to the pilot. (Reno, where two T6s collided at the race start) Don't get me wrong, I have seen a lot of crashes over the years, but many only resulting in injuries. In ten years of skydiving as an example, I witnessed several fatalities, both close-up, and from a distance. The dull sound of impact lives with you forever. I was fortunate to met and befriend Pip Bormann when he came to Hamilton Island to perform there for race week, and had the pleasure of sticking him in the hangar, and helping him do a service on his amazing plane. His airshow practise over the strip was amazing to all watching of course. He has gone now, but I am still much richer for having met that great pilot, and his family. All part of the game unfortunatly, so keep the airspeed up, and get as much as you can, while you can !.........and don't let the bad days spoil it for you....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 ......... the last I saw of him was a fast pass along Rwy 20 at about 50' and the plane sounded perfect.............. No bells rang here? No recall to the airfield and a good dressing down? Was this normal culture here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 One lousy mistake...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 No bells rang here? No recall to the airfield and a good dressing down? Was this normal culture here? not the time or place for it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark11 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Very sad news... Condolences to family and friends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 not the time or place for it. OK, I'll take it to the place and the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 not the time or place for it. I don't understand why you say this discussion should be sensored, FT, when this was reported by a Senior Instructor on the day before. It looks to me like there may be some validity to Tubb's post #37. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Respect for the family, friends and spectators. Can you wait until they bury the pilot? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The aircraft flew down wind. Then turned hard right (possibly 60deg bank) then flopped over to the left. I am thinking that the pilot turned right and realized he could not get back to the runway. I can only think that he turned back left to do a loop and get onto short final. This was all done close to the ground(possibly 500 feet or less) with wheels and flaps down and very slow. Isn't it the case that in a coordinated turn, but slowing, the outside wing will drop first when it stalls being at an apparent higher AoA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Not real sure there Tex, I believe its more to do with climbing or descending which one will stall first. When I heard compulsions report the first thing I thought of was the recent debate in another thread regarding the use of rudder to pick up dropped wings in the stall. Im not saying that this is whats happened, but it could serve as an example of why I believe its fraut with danger when pilots attempt to pick up a dropped wing with the rudder. particularly less docile types. Perhaps further discussion is warranted elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Indeed, while climbing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest extralite Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Isn't it the case that in a coordinated turn, but slowing, the outside wing will drop first when it stalls being at an apparent higher AoA? Down going wing has higher angle of attack due to relative airflow. So a rapid roll from right bank to left bank could stall left wing. Especially if reverse aileron was used to stop the roll as this raises stall speed of that wing too ( hence advice to correct wing drop in stall with rudder not aileron. Just general aero dy discussion that may be unrelated to this unfortunate accident. Indeed, while climbing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 .... Pip Borrman ... paid the price through an error of judgment... Not an error of judgement while flying. Something to think about is don't do aerobatics for a camera. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 low speed, both wings have higher AOA, bank right, in a climbing turn, left upward wing, with downward aileron, now has a greater AOA then the right hand, lower wing, left wing stalls, start roll and yaw to left, reaction might be to add more left aileron, further increasing its effective AOA, deepening the stall, then rapid roll into spiral/spin to left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Not an error of judgement while flying.Something to think about is don't do aerobatics for a camera. Correct DJP, Pip broke his tried and tested own rules and was under some pressure from the media, also with the aircraft not performing correctly engine wise it was an accident that shouldn't of happened. Alf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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