jetjr Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 As discussed elsewhere, camit , who actually make these engine for jabiru and always have, are now working on their own. Latest Jabiru offerings are no doubt improving yet still seeing premature failures and odd major failures. Concentrating on CHT isnt the real issue but EGT also With adoption of 12 channel EFIS, it has shown that variability is a problem. Adjustments are needed to even them out. All new model engines run fine finned heads and yes this has made huge impacts to cooling. Camit are implementing other upgrades using older solid lifter engine as base. Efforts toredesign cylinders and heads should make it more reliable and likely to reach TBO. Many of the recent failure modes werent present in these older engines however they used to run old heads so did suffer overheating issues. Current Jabiru supplied engines DO NOT include Camit upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadstick Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 Had an interesting problem today with the hydraulic roller lifters, number 3 cylinder had a leak passed the inlet valve when doing the leakdown today, so with the cylinder pressurised I pushed the valve open in an attempt to dislodge what I thought was a bit of carbon. What happened next was that the lifter took up the extra slack and went solid as a rock holding the valve open, I had to remove both open them up and press the ball relief open manually. Does anyone have info on the leak rate on these new lifters? I tacked down the part number HT-2270 but cant get the details, this thing did not want to leak back at all rock solid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Had an interesting problem today with the hydraulic roller lifters, number 3 cylinder had a leak passed the inlet valve when doing the leakdown today, so with the cylinder pressurised I pushed the valve open in an attempt to dislodge what I thought was a bit of carbon. What happened next was that the lifter took up the extra slack and went solid as a rock holding the valve open, I had to remove both open them up and press the ball relief open manually. Does anyone have info on the leak rate on these new lifters? I tacked down the part number HT-2270 but cant get the details, this thing did not want to leak back at all rock solid... My engine doc had something similar happen when he was doing the 25 hour service. Hydraulic lifter was solid and he replaced all of them. 75 hours later so far so good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_J Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 You folks are scaring me off from anything powered by the Jabiru 3300 Was hoping the chance to buy new = nothing going to come apart (for awhile). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Do yourself a favour and put a Chev in it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Don't run hydraulic lifters and you won't have that problem. Anytime you create slack in the valve train the lifter will take it up till it reaches the maximum limit and then you don't have the function. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Don't run hydraulic lifters and you won't have that problem. Anytime you create slack in the valve train the lifter will take it up till it reaches the maximum limit and then you don't have the function. Nev A proper hydraulic lifter as in Lycoming or Continental won't do that as they have a small pressure relief hole in the lifter body. It is normal procedure however to depress the ball check valve and clear them of oil prior to re- inserting them if the have been removed. Failure to do so will lead to a bent pushrod........or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I agree with Nev and appears Camit does too, stick to older solid lifter engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I agree with Nev and appears Camit does too, stick to older solid lifter engine. They work just fine in the American engines and make TBO +.................Maj........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Do yourself a favour and put a Chev in it! Put a Ford in it.. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Put a Ford in it. Or anything? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_J Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 You know, the 3300 imparts to the J230 something rare among LSA's -- a "real airplane" exhaust note. Quite a lovely sound a few weeks ago amongst the whine of all the Rotax 912's at the Expo. I'm old school and while I respect the Rotax's reliability, it just sounds too much of a frenzy to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 You know, the 3300 imparts to the J230 something rare among LSA's -- a "real airplane" exhaust note. Quite a lovely sound a few weeks ago amongst the whine of all the Rotax 912's at the Expo. I'm old school and while I respect the Rotax's reliability, it just sounds too much of a frenzy to me. I own a J230, I m very aware of problems of material and design of engine and airframe, Apart from the exhaust note they are powerful, fast, strong, plenty of space and affordable. My point is Jabiru are far from perfect but nothing else really meets all the requirements even though reliability is pretty important and hopefully Camit will get Jabiru to take notice. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetboy Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 because none of the engines coming out of Bundaberg right now have been in the field a significant amount of time, you'd be best to go visit the two outfits making engines there and make up your own mind. I've only seen a recent 3300 here out of Camit and it seems to make sense to me. I'm constantly considering the same question in relation to my J2200 which is the ole solid lifter model but I've had no reason to look for a replacement yet however based on the problem rate with all versions of hydraulic lifters I wont be choosing anything from that line. Short answer: same as long version = talk to Ian, I think he has a different opinion about the versatility of fine fins and overheating. Alloy specification might be more important. As a newcomer here to educate myself on the J230D, I'm posting this not to resurrect the slanging match as it's been called, but rather to post what I gather from having read the entire thread and to express appreciation for info contained herein.What I gather about the Jabiru 3300: - Requires meticulous attention to CHT and strict adherance to operating practices that manage them (cht's), i.e. climb @ no less than 90kt - Is not a mature engine design and improvements are needed - 13.2 Update History Table of the overhaul manual (25 June 2014 rev) indicates head design is evolving in attempt to address CHT (fine fin heads, etc) Things such as Rotec Aerosport's liquid cooled heads at first sound like a "no-brainer" but then you're adding complexity (coolant pump) and weight. And of course that could only be done if aircraft is moved into the experimental category at which point you become your own warranty as well as your own liability insurance. My question might be, what is thought by those who have posted here, of the state of the 3300's coming out of Bundaberg right now, serial numbers above #2539 with all the updates to the head design and with the roller lifters and cam, etc. I realize that these engines may not have been in the field long enough to form opinions as to whether some of the purported reliability issues have been successfully addressed, but I have to ask anyhow as I am, at this time, in the factory new market not pre-owned. Short version: Are brand new 3300's likely to be less prone to the overheat problems discussed in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 A geared engine has advantages when fitted to a high drag plane. It can carry a larger diameter prop providing more thrust . The Jabiru six does sound nice, and is essentially a simpler concept. No gears and air cooled. All other things being EQUAL simpler would be best in our field of aviation.. Nev 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Craig I know of some that run on Mogas and getting 1000 hours before overhaul no problem, I do believe they have significantly improved over the years. Another advantage is they are very cheap to overhaul compared to the likes of Rotax or Lyc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 A lot of people run Jab engines on Mogas. I did when I couln't get avgas, but I got poor quality mogas and had a detonation event. No problem with running full power after the damage was done to the piston, but low power was not good. I know that sounds surprising, but it happened. The repair cost was very reasonble, using Jab spares and doing it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Ok, engine rebuild is cheap.....how about the airframe rebuild from an out landing that goes pearshaped. ( basically destroyed ) "Don't fly over, what you can't land on" ......yea, right. The SOONER I can get a cert Camit, the more relaxed I'll be. Love my 160, it's a great performer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Don't run hydraulic lifters and you won't have that problem. Anytime you create slack in the valve train the lifter will take it up till it reaches the maximum limit and then you don't have the function. Nev The "simplicity, is the essence of reliability" quote, pops it's head up again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_J Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Why is the solid lifter engine (2006 and 2007 models?) less prone to high CHT's, or is this a wrong conclusion? If you were in the market for a J230 and could afford a 2014, would it still be wiser to choose a 2006 or 2007 with the solid lifter engine, then hang the new scimitar prop on it along with a few other upgrades and call it a day, pocketing the savings (w/ expectation of engine overhaul being closer in time)? There are several 2006's and 7's on the pre-owned market here with mid time engines. Problem is, their sale location is at the shops that also service them-- on the surface sounds a convenient arrangement but it adds seller bias to the pre-buy inspection since these shops are about the only places here with experience working on the Jab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RATT Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Craig, I'm new here too. In exactly the same boat! What did you end up doing. I'm a buyer of a 230. Don't just don't know now after reading all this. Marty. Darwin NT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 great name for this Hybrid Ian Boag......... rotax powered jabiru - a 'Rotaru' Or is Jabitax a more appropriate name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 ............ or pokeawallaby (jabaru) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 G'day RATT, my 2 cents worth. Do plenty of research other than what's on this site cause if you believe half the crap on here you wouldn't get out of bed In the morning. Have a great day. 1 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 G'day RATT, my 2 cents. Most people don't complain until its obvious that they have nothing to lose. Plenty suffer in silence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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