ben87r Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 ...... We aren't going to start talking about religion now are we??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 It's important to get the theory right......practically for the aircraft we fly will that 10ish degrees T to M make a real difference to what we do? Also interesting that winds are provided steady with occasional gusting measurements, yet bearing never seems to vary.... Seems the wind can speed up or slow down but can't shift a few degrees one way or the other.... I guess it either doesn't change or the character limits for the short form forecasts just can't cope Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTNUZZA Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 It's important to get the theory right......practically for the aircraft we fly will that 10ish degrees T to M make a real difference to what we do? Also interesting that winds are provided steady with occasional gusting measurements, yet bearing never seems to vary.... Seems the wind can speed up or slow down but can't shift a few degrees one way or the other.... I guess it either doesn't change or the character limits for the short form forecasts just can't copeAndy Makes a big difference if your main runway is 18/36 and the wind is 090 /10 true for example. If your wind sock was caught up on the pole and not giving an indication you could choose 18 if you thought it was magnetic and get a downwind component where with 36 you have the wind on the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 10kn at 10 degrees won't make any noticeable difference and for all intensive purposes it could be considered to be magnetic up until Xwind Dwind limits. To be honest I hardly read the wind anyways as long as it's under aircraft limits. Windsock and AWIS/ATIS is a much better source for runway selection/TO performance. That being said the theory knowledge should be there. There are a few things in the thread that really are minimum knowledge that doesn't seem to have been passed on. But that's where the forum is good as long as good info is getting passed around :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTNUZZA Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 A 10kn at 10 degrees won't make any noticeable difference and for all intensive purposes it could be considered to be magnetic up until Xwind Dwind limits. To be honest I hardly read the wind anyways as long as it's under aircraft limits. Windsock and AWIS/ATIS is a much better source for runway selection/TO performance.That being said the theory knowledge should be there. There are a few things in the thread that really are minimum knowledge that doesn't seem to have been passed on. But that's where the forum is good as long as good info is getting passed around :) Any downwind component on a 400m strip with a plane that likes fly makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 If a single knot of down wind makes big enough difference to your TO performance to question the strip length, I wouldn't advise using it in the first place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTNUZZA Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 If a single knot of down wind makes big enough difference to your TO performance to question the strip length, I wouldn't advise using it in the first place. Does not affect TO performance just landing as the plane likes to float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The VFG has plenty of info. http://www.vfrg.com.au/pre-flight-planning/meteorology/services/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Personally when it comes to electing runways I'm likely to stick my head out and have a look at the windsock.....it doesn't have any calibration issues and points only where the wind is going. Unlike the forecast it doesn't seem to suffer any delays in announcing what's happening on the ground right now Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 BTW, is reading an ARFOR/TAF in the RAAus sylibus today? when I went through I don't recall covering it in my formal lessons. I did subsequently learn it myself, and do fly long distances cross country so my comments are really a bit tounge in cheek because I absolutely understand the benefits of having the info, but as VFR pilots our primary instrument is our eyes, and I believe they can provide a pretty good set of info in the area especially as the forecast is merely that, and weather forecasting while better than it might have been 100years past is still not something you can totally rely on Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 , is reading an ARFOR/TAF in the RAAus sylibus today I bloody hope so!! Pretty important info as you mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I have pretty good eyesight but must admit I struggle to read a windsock at a destination airfield. Flying down the dead side at circuit height or over the top 500 feet higher, the wind direction and strength are often ambiguous. Also It is not unusual to see two socks at 90 degrees to each other. I have been doing this for many years so it isn't lack of practice or experience and as I said my long eyesight is good. Do others have this problem? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I bloody hope so!! Pretty important info as you mentioned If I recall, I learned it during the pilot cert training but don't remember it being in the syllabus until the XC portion. Of course in much greater detail on the PPL test. That said, I had forgotten the specific point until ben pointed it out and I looked it up... i am also of the persuasion that I can get the TAF before departing and all that, but whether its M or T and off +/- 10 degrees doesn't make much difference as its likely to be different by that much or more anyway by the time I arrive - at which point the windsock or ATIS/AWIS or other observations or pilot communication will be more timely and accurate. A great test question and important to know (or be able to look up) but so far hasn't caused any real problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev17ifly2 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I have pretty good eyesight but must admit I struggle to read a windsock at a destination airfield. Flying down the dead side at circuit height or over the top 500 feet higher, the wind direction and strength are often ambiguous. Also It is not unusual to see two socks at 90 degrees to each other. I have been doing this for many years so it isn't lack of practice or experience and as I said my long eyesight is good. Do others have this problem? No you are not the only one. I sometimes struggle to see what the sock is doing when over the field. It is also not often that the primary and secondary windsocks indicate same direction maybe due to the secondary being tucked away near buildings or other obstructions. The TAF just gives me a heads up as to what I may encounter at that location, I don,t make runway selection based on it. If there has been no traffic landing ahead me so I know which runway is active then I overfly looking for the sock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Numerous times have searched.......and not located the wind sock, made a judgment, landed, bugger me.........there's the damn sock, right there. Grrrrrr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Does not affect TO performance just landing as the plane likes to float. A cautious approach speed? Case of +5 kts for mum, +5 kts for auntie perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTNUZZA Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 A cautious approach speed? Case of +5 kts for mum, +5 kts for auntie perhaps? 1.3 Vso for current weight short final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty 1 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 BTW, is reading an ARFOR/TAF in the RAAus sylibus today? when I went through I don't recall covering it in my formal lessons. Andy And there lies the problem that I hope has been addressed by now. If Andy doesn't remember doing this in his training and myself and others do, where is the consistentsey in our training. And not just this one issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 BTW, is reading an ARFOR/TAF in the RAAus sylibus today? when I went through I don't recall covering it in my formal lessons.Andy Yes it is in the syllabus (see below) and I can't see how anyone can compile a flight plan and get it approved by their instructor without it. Knowledge of Forecasts and Reports. Demonstrate an understanding of weather forecasts, reports and broadcasts that are pertinent to the area of operation. Know the terms and abbreviations used in forecasts and where to obtain decodes. Demonstrate an ability to obtain relevant forecasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Demonstrate an understanding of weather forecasts, That raises another issue - understanding forecasts. For safe operation it is important to understand that forecasts can be and are, not always right. Checking the validity of a forecast against actuals and using other sources of info has saved me from weather issues on past occasions. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearo Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 That raises another issue - understanding forecasts. For safe operation it is important to understand that forecasts can be and are, not always right. Checking the validity of a forecast against actuals and using other sources of info has saved me from weather issues on past occasions. But a forecast will help determine you alternates/holding, and thats the whole idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Not only that, but an aviation forecast has aviation specifics, such as turbulence, which may save your neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 My wife also uses forecasts to work out when to do her laundry, but she still asks me to check BoM radar etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shags_j Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 But a forecast will help determine you alternates/holding, and thats the whole idea. True that is part of it but contains so much more pertinent information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
440032 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Five minutes after NAIPS was born in the early 90's as I recall, this came out: Not Actually Intending To Provide Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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