Wind turbines

[fly_tornado]

This event happened today

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So, you are agreeing that the IEEFA graph presents corrupt information ?

"interpret data" with dinosaurs always means call the other guy a liar

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

I have attended coal industry conferences in India and they’d certainly intend great expansion and modernisation.

Certainly backed up via the Indian media reports of the last few months - Recent reports of doubling of the coal supply rail lines, manufacturing new worlds largest locomotives to pull larger coal wagons, and building whole new rail systems to open new coal mines is all indicative of where India is looking for reliable and cheap power.

Then there is those who have the foresight to see India's future coal needs, like Adani, looking to establish further coal supply for India.

 

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[Flying Binghi]

Oh, Dear...

 

The pressure and rush to go green: The technical integrity of Germany’s offshore wind parks gets cast into doubt after a wind turbine comes apart after just 8 years of operation. North Sea wind turbines may prove to be inadequately designed and thus unfit for safe operation.

 

“Massive Damage”…Large-Scale Engineering Debacle Threatens As North Sea Wind Turbine Breaks Apart!

 

Would'nt want to be flying past when one of them 'monuments to the gods' of wx flew to bits.

 

On a side note, haven't seen any more reports of why that Oz Antarctic station turbine fell apart ? Apart from the stupidity of using a wind generator for power I think I have a fair idea why it failed.

 

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[Yenn]

You ask why the government is pro coal.

 

It is dead easy for the government to raise money on all the coal dug out of the ground and also on coal exported. Our government wants to continue the easy option. Dig it up, we tax it, send it overseas, we tax it, then bring back what it produces so we can tax that.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The pressure and rush to go green: The technical integrity of Germany’s offshore wind parks gets cast into doubt after a wind turbine comes apart after just 8 years of operation. North Sea wind turbines may prove to be inadequately designed and thus unfit for safe operation...Would'nt want to be flying past when one of them 'monuments to the gods' of wx flew to bits...

A generator cowling came off. Reason enough to ditch the whole renewable industry and go back to good old coal?

 

...On a side note, haven't seen any more reports of why that Oz Antarctic station turbine fell apart ? Apart from the stupidity of using a wind generator for power I think I have a fair idea why it failed.

During more than a century of Antarctic exploration our people have learned that diesel is expensive to bring in, but there is plenty of wind. Why not use the wind for power?

Seems you have quite an aversion to renewables, FB.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Certainly backed up via the Indian media reports of the last few months - Recent reports of doubling of the coal supply rail lines, manufacturing new worlds largest locomotives to pull larger coal wagons, and building whole new rail systems to open new coal mines is all indicative of where India is looking for reliable and cheap power.Then there is those who have the foresight to see India's future coal needs, like Adani, looking to establish further coal supply for India.

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FB, there's one little thing you're forgetting in your pro-coal stance. Climate change. You may not care if your grandkids have a viable planet to live on, but I do.

[Flying Binghi]

A generator cowling came off. Reason enough to ditch the whole renewable industry and go back to good old coal?

Heh, yer must be the forum leg puller..

That generator cowling also had the helipad on top of it. That's the helipad the service crews use to maintain the wind generators. Probably why they've shut down the servicing to the entire wind park. Watch a few youtube videos of the wind turbine service crews getting out of the helicopter and one of the first things they do is attach their safety lines to the wind tower, i.e., they attach themselves to the tower cowling...

 

There are a few other serious issues exposed by the cowling loss. Watch a youtube vid of the salesman selling the units and the other problems will become self evident. (Hint, pressure vessel)

 

 

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[fly_tornado]

nothing like clean realiable stable coal

 

 

 

[M61A1]

FB, there's one little thing you're forgetting in your pro-coal stance. Climate change. You may not care if your grandkids have a viable planet to live on, but I do.

Well that's all the more reason to get it right and not stuff about with half baked technology that often is more environmentally costly than what we currently use. Rooftop solar is great, I have it myself, but someone still used a great deal of energy to produce panels and batteries (if you have them).Nuclear for a country like ours is a good solution. We're geographically stable and have heaps of uranium. As FT mentioned, you have to store the waste......modern plants aren't water cooled and can be built away from the coastline and can actually use the waste of earlier plants and extract most of the available energy, and reduce the waste even further. We could make power for years on other people's nuclear waste, but we're just too stupid to accept a good solution because of paranoid greens.

 

 

[Methusala]

Hinkley Point: the ‘dreadful deal’ behind the world’s most expensive power plant

 

A nice reality check for those dinosaurs who insist on spinning the myth of safe cheap nuclear power. Go on, just read it and weep.

 

 

[M61A1]

What's your point?

 

The worst thing about it is the bureaucracy involved, which may be a point, because our bureaucracy is probably just as bad, if not worse.

 

 

[Methusala]

Well, pretty simple. From the Abbott experiment we learned that you don't always get what you want. (And it usually costs a bucket for little gain)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Rooftop solar is great, I have it myself, but someone still used a great deal of energy to produce panels and batteries (if you have them).

there is less tech and resources involved in producing a solar panel than a laptop.

I think you'll eventually see batteries integrated into the solar panel

 

There is no way that a private company is going to invest in a coal fired power station in Australia, the bureaucracy comes from the liberal party trying to win a few votes from the oldies

 

 

[spacesailor]

", the bureaucracy comes from the liberal party trying to win a few votes from the oldies"

 

Your joking of course.

 

It seems to have started in the university's, and is ingrained through all politics.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[M61A1]

there is less tech and resources involved in producing a solar panel than a laptop.I think you'll eventually see batteries integrated into the solar panel

There is no way that a private company is going to invest in a coal fired power station in Australia, the bureaucracy comes from the liberal party trying to win a few votes from the oldies

Batteries in solar panels, is about as good as the old DVD players in TVs, when one dies, the other is degraded. The batteries use a lot of mineral resources, which also means a lot of power used to either mine them or recycle them.The Australian govt has been good at bureaucracy since long before I was born and I have seen both lots have a go several times, so I'm going to assume you're just trolling.

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

...During more than a century of Antarctic exploration our people have learned that diesel is expensive to bring in, but there is plenty of wind. Why not use the wind for power?Seems you have quite an aversion to renewables, FB.

Back in the 1990's i were a greeny. I were a card carrying member of the wilderness society, did a permaculture course and a wind power course at TAFE and Peter Pedals were an inspiration. And, I had visions of living on top of a mountain in a tower with a big wind generator on top.. Yeah, i know. A real green.. First night of the wind power course the teacher explained resonance and why one should not attach the turbine directly to the residence. My first lesson of the requirement to actually research things before getting carried away with the eco-loon nonsense...

Back with the Antarctic wind geny.. From memory the failed ice base geny were one of a pair originally intended for one of the Bass Straight islands. When installed at the ice base they couldn't afford to send a high enough crane to assemble it to design height so it were 'shortened'. Thinking further on it I wonder if the concrete foundation budget were a bit short as well. Weight of foundation and the load spreading foundation 'wire' affects the tower 'bounce' or resonance feedback to an out of balance problem from the regular blade icing problem. The other possible issue is a shorter then design tower would allow the blades to hit the very turbulent area of wind eddys found at ground level which would set up a whole other set of resonant feedback issues on top of the out of balance iced up 'propellor' blades. Any pilot has a fair idea of wind feedback resonance from the propellor to the airframe from when ground run ups are done across or against the wind and the way the the aircraft either, or all - shakes, vibrates, or bounces on the gear as the wind gusts or changes direction.

 

...and the stupidity of putting up a large set of propellor blades in an environment of near daily icing conditions..

 

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[kgwilson]

You don't get icing conditions when there is no water vapour present no matter how cold it is. Antarctica is the driest continent on earth. There will be situations when icing can occur though but do you really think they did not consider that? In other words Sh!t happens and we learn from experience just as we have learned that coal pollutes and it's time has come and gone. That is why no one will invest in it any more. I note that your precious Adani can't get a backer for it's plans here. Even the the government (who were originally duped by the promise of jobs that would never materialise) pulled out. Not really surprising given Adanis appalling environmental record.

 

 

[M61A1]

That is why no one will invest in it any more

There is no way that a private company is going to invest in a coal fired power station in Australia

Only an idiot would invest in any industry in this country....with labor, the greens and getup non-stop "lawfare" and union thuggery,why would you bother?

[Old Koreelah]

Back in the 1990's i were a greeny. I were a card carrying member of the wilderness society, did a permaculture course and a wind power course at TAFE and Peter Pedals were an inspiration. And, I had visions of living on top of a mountain in a tower with a big wind generator on top.. Yeah, i know. A real green.. First night of the wind power course the teacher explained resonance and why one should not attach the turbine directly to the residence. My first lesson of the requirement to actually research things before getting carried away with the eco-loon nonsense...Back with the Antarctic wind geny.. From memory the failed ice base geny were one of a pair originally intended for one of the Bass Straight islands. When installed at the ice base they couldn't afford to send a high enough crane to assemble it to design height so it were 'shortened'. Thinking further on it I wonder if the concrete foundation budget were a bit short as well. Weight of foundation and the load spreading foundation 'wire' affects the tower 'bounce' or resonance feedback to an out of balance problem from the regular blade icing problem. The other possible issue is a shorter then design tower would allow the blades to hit the very turbulent area of wind eddys found at ground level which would set up a whole other set of resonant feedback issues on top of the out of balance iced up 'propellor' blades. Any pilot has a fair idea of wind feedback resonance from the propellor to the airframe from when ground run ups are done across or against the wind and the way the the aircraft either, or all - shakes, vibrates, or bounces on the gear as the wind gusts or changes direction.

...and the stupidity of putting up a large set of propellor blades in an environment of near daily icing conditions..

 

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Interesting to hear about the complications of wind turbines, FB. So should we give up on renewables and back to fossil fuel- or solve the teething problems, like we do with all new technology?Early coal-burning technology suffered exploding boilers, derailed trains, amputated limbs, black lung, mine cave-ins, gas explosions... Wind power sure looks safer and simpler.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Only an idiot would invest in any industry in this country....with labor, the greens and getup non-stop "lawfare" and union thuggery,why would you bother?

I'm responding to this discussion the "What's up Australia" site, where it should be.

[fly_tornado]

Only an idiot would invest in any industry in this country....with labor, the greens and getup non-stop "lawfare" and union thuggery,why would you bother?

Since 2000, various energy companies have closed down 13 coal fired power plants, if a new coal fired plant can't compete new, then in 20 years time its a huge liability for whoever builds it.Wind is 90% free energy once you've built the wind farm

 

 

[M61A1]

You still have to build it, maintain it and generate power when the wind isn't blowing. As pointed out in another article, the companies who build wind turbines do so mainly to collect the subsidies, and one the subsidies run out they abandon them.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

people aren't building coal fired plants, that's the reality you keep ignoring. older wind farms that are badly positioned might get abandoned but that's what you expect to happen.

 

13 coal fired plants closed, that's 1 a year. wind farms are growing because the technology to build bigger blades is improving

 

now imagine a future wind turbine design where that 500ft tower was loaded with batteries. its a big money earner

 

 

[fly_tornado]

look at how big the turbines are getting now