Covid 19

[bull]

37 minutes ago, facthunter said:

This has gone past ridiculous. On this matter it's more extreme than any site I ever visit. The funny " jigger" is misused and people are just flinging lunatic insults back and forth. Well a few are. Some are being very patient There's no point continuing this .  Nev

Righto see ya later Nev.....

[bull]

25 minutes ago, red750 said:

So if one of your family dies of Covid, we don't have to give a rat's .... because they were such a tiny percentage.

So if one of your family died from aids or meningitis or tyhoid or malaria you would not be concerned ????? As it is such a small percentage that does die from OTHER transmissable deseases but they still die. death is death from whatever cause and is something that effects all ,,,

[octave]

1 minute ago, bull said:

,but you are recorded as being negative to those that are unvaxxed and saying that those that are unvaxxed are the real risk , when the actual opposite is the case ,if the vaccine works then vaccinated are more of a danger to the unvaccinated cause as you KNOW vaxxed can and do still get and die and spread the covid

I don't accept your assertion that the vaccinated are less safe than the unvaccinated.  Certainly sites that I would regard as being reliable  do not support this assertion.     It can be difficult to sift through and interpret statistics.  Perhaps you could post links from the CDC or similar source.   I will just make an assertion fhat is reasonably easy to fact check. 

 

My assertion is this. In the United states there seems to be a strong correlation between the vaccination rate of each US state. and the infection rate.

This link from the Mayo Clinic has a map. If you hover over each state you can see the Vaccination rate the average daily cases and the infection rate per 100000 people.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map

 

In terms of vaccination I think I have said many times that I am not in favor of mandatory vaccination however I do believe that a place of business has the right to insist n either vaccination or regular testing.   I joined the RAAF in 1979 and during the 12 years I was there it was a condition of employment to be fully vaccinated and otherwise ready to be sent anywhere in the world if necessary.  There actually was a mechanism to refuse however this made you unable to carry out the required duties.   

 

i agree that as a society we do make judgments about how much money and resources we expend to save a given number of lives.   If your plane goes down a very expensive helicopter will probably spend considerable time and money looking for you.    What I feel is being missed is that we are saying look it is only  1084 deaths so lets get rid of all the restrictions and vaccinations.  If we did this we would not be considering the worth of 1084 but considerably more.   We can predict this through examining how easily the virus is passed on and by comparing our situation with other countries.    You surely agree that without the precautions we are taking the infection number and therefore the death and serious illness numbers would be higher. 

 

I feel for the most part I have put my view politely if somewhat firmly at times.  I am more than happy to adjust my position with good quality evidence.    In the end it is up to you what you do.   The government response informed by epidemiologists is that the emergence from lockdowns will be a function of vaccination numbers and measures such as vaccine passports.  I understand that you are against this but nevertheless this is what will most likely happen.   You can decide not to get vaccinated (none of my business)   but although you might think it unfair or stupid you can decide to go along with it or not but there are impositions on this.       

 

Thanks for the apology, I guess it makes us even for my Brazil population typo.   

 

Standing by for flightrites laughing empji, it actually has the opposite effect on than what is intended.

[bull]

21 minutes ago, red750 said:

Why not get in yours and fly off to your hermitage?

Why are you so abusive to others that have a different opinion than you?????

[jackc]

19 minutes ago, red750 said:

Why not get in yours and fly off to your hermitage?

HA HA, I already live here…….I don’t have to go anywhere 🙂. I made a decision 30 years ago to leave the concrete wastelands, I could see the cities were going to become a drug addled, sleaze hole of crime and unhappy living. Sadly, a breeding ground of domestic violence and population of unhappy people. 

[bull]

4 minutes ago, octave said:

I don't accept your assertion that the vaccinated are less safe than the unvaccinated.  Certainly sites that I would regard as being reliable  do not support this assertion.     It can be difficult to sift through and interpret statistics.  Perhaps you could post links from the CDC or similar source.   I will just make an assertion fhat is reasonably easy to fact check. 

 

My assertion is this. In the United states there seems to be a strong correlation between the vaccination rate of each US state. and the infection rate.

This link from the Mayo Clinic has a map. If you hover over each state you can see the Vaccination rate the average daily cases and the infection rate per 100000 people.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/map

 

In terms of vaccination I think I have said many times that I am not in favor of mandatory vaccination however I do believe that a place of business has the right to insist n either vaccination or regular testing.   I joined the RAAF in 1979 and during the 12 years I was there it was a condition of employment to be fully vaccinated and otherwise ready to be sent anywhere in the world if necessary.  There actually was a mechanism to refuse however this made you unable to carry out the required duties.   

 

i agree that as a society we do make judgments about how much money and resources we expend to save a given number of lives.   If your plane goes down a very expensive helicopter will probably spend considerable time and money looking for you.    What I feel is being missed is that we are saying look it is only  1084 deaths so lets get rid of all the restrictions and vaccinations.  If we did this we would not be considering the worth of 1084 but considerably more.   We can predict this through examining how easily the virus is passed on and by comparing our situation with other countries.    You surely agree that without the precautions we are taking the infection number and therefore the death and serious illness numbers would be higher. 

 

I feel for the most part I have put my view politely if somewhat firmly at times.  I am more than happy to adjust my position with good quality evidence.    In the end it is up to you what you do.   The government response informed by epidemiologists is that the emergence from lockdowns will be a function of vaccination numbers and measures such as vaccine passports.  I understand that you are against this but nevertheless this is what will most likely happen.   You can decide not to get vaccinated (none of my business)   but although you might think it unfair or stupid you can decide to go along with it or not but there are impositions on this.       

 

Thanks for the apology, I guess it makes us even for my Brazil population typo.   

 

Standing by for flightrites laughing empji, it actually has the opposite effect on than what is intended.

Thanks for that and yes ,you have been very patient and polite , and even though i am fully vaccinated i support anyone who for whatever reason that do not want it,,,,,,,you know my body my choice...........

[jackc]

17 minutes ago, bull said:

Why are you so abusive to others that have a different opinion than you?????

It’s OK, Red is just a bit browned off that a few of us are lucky we are not in lockdown and can go fly when we like.

We are all masters of our own destiny, so IF people don’t like their ‘lot’ in life they CAN fix it if they like.  Those that don’t?   Go build a bridge and live……UNDER it 🙂

[jackc]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

This has gone past ridiculous. On this matter it's more extreme than any site I ever visit. The funny " jigger" is misused and people are just flinging lunatic insults back and forth. Well a few are. Some are being very patient There's no point continuing this .  Nev

Nev,

 

Our aero club members had a great meeting on Saturday. No guesses for a main topic of conversation 🙂. We all passed our opinions around and discussed the situation, no raised voices etc.  We all agreed to get some fly-ins happening, so all the guys with private and airstrips are looking to host visitors etc.  

Organised our Christmas party etc.  In person meetings are far better than Forums, but we have no choices at present…….

 Everyone is entitled to their opinions and admittedly better choices of words could be made in some cases here.

Primarily we are Aviators,  maybe we have flogged the Covid horse too much?
I love a laugh and people might say I am too much on that aspect of life, but my body is up to its 10th year ‘running on condition’ from Cancer,  I could have croaked years ago and nearly did……

So,  I do my best to have fun and if a few stupid rules get broken along the way, so be it.  I consider everyone here to be my friends and would love to meet everyone personally …….but in the current global situation?  I don’t think that will ever be possible, but I live in hope

[red750]

And that's just typical of the "I'm alright Jack, stuff you" attitude that has us in this predicament.

 

No, I'm not ecstatic about being restricted to my own home, only being able to visit the supermarket, not seeing my family or friends for almost 18 months, and heading towards the second Christmas with my son unable to come to visit his mother who has has two cancers, chemotherapry, radiation therapy and now has shingles. Why wouldn't I be pissed off? And why has all this happened? Because selfish so and so's who think of nothing but themselves and laugh at others go around "breaking a few rules.  Rules mean nothing to me, they are for someone else." Well, you'll get you come uppance.

[bull]

5 minutes ago, red750 said:

And that's just typical of the "I'm alright Jack, stuff you" attitude that has us in this predicament.

 

No, I'm not ecstatic about being restricted to my own home, only being able to visit the supermarket, not seeing my family or friends for almost 18 months, and heading towards the second Christmas with my son unable to come to visit his mother who has has two cancers, chemotherapry, radiation therapy and now has shingles. Why wouldn't I be pissed off? And why has all this happened? Because selfish so and so's who think of nothing but themselves and laugh at others go around "breaking a few rules.  Rules mean nothing to me, they are for someone else." Well, you'll get you come uppance.

You sound like you just described your dicktater premier....

 

[jackc]

3 minutes ago, red750 said:

And that's just typical of the "I'm alright Jack, stuff you" attitude that has us in this predicament.

 

No, I'm not ecstatic about being restricted to my own home, only being able to visit the supermarket, not seeing my family or friends for almost 18 months, and heading towards the second Christmas with my son unable to come to visit his mother who has has two cancers, chemotherapry, radiation therapy and now has shingles. Why wouldn't I be pissed off? And why has all this happened? Because selfish so and so's who think of nothing but themselves and laugh at others go around "breaking a few rules.  Rules mean nothing to me, they are for someone else." Well, you'll get you come uppance.

I get my come uppence on the day of my funeral, which incidentally could have been years ago.  So, I am on ‘bonus’ time right now.   I would not be breaking any rules flying in Qld anyway.  I feel sorry for people in lockdown……it must suck on a grand scale, but lots of things have happened to me in my life that I did not like or want at the time, but like everything I have just sucked it up and moved on.  Realising that there are many people in this life way worse off than I could ever be.

 

[red750]

Again, that's typical, smart arse. He's not out there spreading this plague, it's people like you who blame the government for everything. Believe me, I'm no fan of Dan Andrews, but if some of you think you could do a better job, stand for parliament and show us what you've got.

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, bull said:

You sound like you just described your dicktater premier....

 

What’s the Premier got to do with rule flouting.

 

[bull]

7 minutes ago, red750 said:

Again, that's typical, smart arse. He's not out there spreading this plague, it's people like you who blame the government for everything. Believe me, I'm no fan of Dan Andrews, but if some of you think you could do a better job, stand for parliament and show us what you've got.

Mate ,please take a deep breath and relax a bit ,,you will give yourself a heart attack with fear.  Ok now this is the official government advice about covid and your chances of dying,,,,Most people who get covid recover within a week or so without requiring hospitalisation,,,,,,read the first paragraph if you dont believe me and this IS OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT ADVICE  so who has been lying to you ,,hmm maybe your premier ah.....

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by bull

[bull]

11 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

What’s the Premier got to do with rule flouting.

 

Breaking his word and lying about fucking lindsey foxes daughter [or at least trying to until she called him out and he got kicked down the stairs....lol

 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by bull

[turboplanner]

4 minutes ago, bull said:

Breaking his word and lying about fucking lindsey foxes daughter [or at least trying to until she called him out.

 

You’re not adding anything to the discussion. Lindsay’s daughter’s a bit old for him

[Marty_d]

3 hours ago, octave said:

Marty I left a 0 off the Brazil population but it still equates to a death rate  of around 50000 if applied to Australia's population   The question for the let it rip mob is that left unchecked covid would be a huge killer. 

My fault for not fact checking - I had no idea what Brazil's population was but the maths stuck out like dogs balls.

 

So, my apologies @bull, it's actually 0.278% - NOT 2.9%, but equally not 0.02% as you stated.

 

The fact does remain that comparing it to other causes of death are not really helpful, as those other causes were the same before Covid and deaths from Covid are an additional factor.  Far from "being fearful" as one punter puts it (hint:  he seems to bounce between "funny" and "caution" responses, in equally inappropriate ways) - it's common sense to use all reasonable means of minimizing the death rate.

[red750]

2 minutes ago, bull said:

you will give yourself a heart attack with fear. 

I am not afraid of dying, in pain with pipes and tubes everywhere yes, but I could have died long ago too. Three times in fact. Wrote off a car, had advanced cancer, and had a weak heart pumping at 30 bpm, which caused me to pass out and fall down. So I've had my share of close calls. What gets on my goat is every time things look clear and restrictions are lifted, some idiot goes running all over the countryside spreading this thing and plunging us back into lockdown.

[bull]

3 minutes ago, red750 said:

I am not afraid of dying, in pain with pipes and tubes everywhere yes, but I could have died long ago too. Three times in fact. Wrote off a car, had advanced cancer, and had a weak heart pumping at 30 bpm, which caused me to pass out and fall down. So I've had my share of close calls. What gets on my goat is every time things look clear and restrictions are lifted, some idiot goes running all over the countryside spreading this thing and plunging us back into lockdown.

This covid will NEVER be erradicated now ,look at the facts ,the vaccine has only been out for 7 months and covid has already mutated 4 times in 7 months, we will have to learn to live with it just like cancer. [i have lost my mum and dad and uncle and stepmum and cousin  to cancer and have 4 family members still fighting the big C ]  We will have deaths but we need to build up a natural herd immunity or this cov will just keep changing..

[jackc]

2 minutes ago, red750 said:

I am not afraid of dying, in pain with pipes and tubes everywhere yes, but I could have died long ago too. Three times in fact. Wrote off a car, had advanced cancer, and had a weak heart pumping at 30 bpm, which caused me to pass out and fall down. So I've had my share of close calls. What gets on my goat is every time things look clear and restrictions are lifted, some idiot goes running all over the countryside spreading this thing and plunging us back into lockdown.

But none of us here can stop people mindlessly travelling all over the place, they don’t take ANY personal responsibility at all.  Those people will always be out there.  I guess it’s how much people break the rules by?  Drive your car 5-10kmh over the highway speed limit, yep broken the speed limit.  Or go about 100kmh over the speed limit like motorbike did to me the other day……maniac.

IF I get down the road and find him smeared all over a tree…….what could I do?

Just hope he never took any other innocent human being with him……

 

[onetrack]

It amuses me somewhat that the people here who claim that COVID-19 isn't a serious threat to our society, try to match figures from road deaths, heart attacks, strokes, and a dozen other causes of death - all the while conveniently ignoring the fact that none of these other reasons for deaths, are highly transmissible!

 

What part of "highly contagious disease", resulting in a declared pandemic, don't you understand?

 

Road deaths, heart attacks and the dozen other death causes compared to COVID-19, have absolutely zero relationship to COVID-19 deaths, as the root causes are completely different!

[jackc]

However they are deaths all the same, but from different causes.  All right, a similar comparison maybe deaths from the Flu?

More die from the Flu than Covid……so far anyway.

[bull]

19 minutes ago, onetrack said:

It amuses me somewhat that the people here who claim that COVID-19 isn't a serious threat to our society, try to match figures from road deaths, heart attacks, strokes, and a dozen other causes of death - all the while conveniently ignoring the fact that none of these other reasons for deaths, are highly transmissible!

 

What part of "highly contagious disease", resulting in a declared pandemic, don't you understand?

 

Road deaths, heart attacks and the dozen other death causes compared to COVID-19, have absolutely zero relationship to COVID-19 deaths, as the root causes are completely different!

So ot , i,ll say the same to you mate,,please sit down and take a big breath you will scare yourself into a heart attack ,,did you even read the official government advice you are given at testing stations ?? no ,ok i,ll show you the form and read the first paragraph , Covid 19 is serious ,BUT most people recover within a week or two without requiring hospitalisations.

Edited September 12, 2021 by bull

[onetrack]

The WHO estimates, on current best figures (given that accurate recording of deaths in 3rd world countries is highly deficient, and is possibly much higher than officially recorded), that the death rate from COVID-19 is around 3%-4% - while the death rate from seasonal 'flu is generally around 0.1%.

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-similarities-and-differences-with-influenza

 

Keep in mind that WW2 was a horror of sudden death, diseases, accident and training deaths - yet the U.S. death toll for WW2, over a period of just under 4 years, was a total of 418,500 (military & civilian).

 

But the COVID-19 pandemic, in a period of approximately 18 mths, has taken the lives of 677,700 people in the U.S., to date - many of whom didn't believe this virus was to be taken seriously.

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by onetrack

[bull]

11 minutes ago, onetrack said:

The WHO estimates, on current best figures (given that accurate recording of deaths in 3rd world countries is highly deficient, and is possibly much higher than officially recorded), that the death rate from COVID-19 is around 3%-4% - while the death rate from seasonal 'flu is generally around 0.1%.

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-similarities-and-differences-with-influenza

 

Keep in mind that WW2 was a horror of sudden death, diseases, accident and training deaths - yet the U.S. death toll for WW2, over a period of just under 4 years, was a total of 418,500 (military & civilian).

 

But the COVID-19 pandemic, in a period of approximately 18 mths, has taken the lives of 677,700 people in the U.S. - many of whom didn't believe this virus was to be taken seriously.

 

Maybe you should have started complaining about the death rate we have had every year in the states,, every year!!! from heart desease,,,,imagine if we had spent the amount of money wasted fighting something you can not fight ,would have been better spent to reduce the toll from heart desease. Something to stop the deaths you know like you say.

• About 655,000 Americans die from heart disease each year—that’s 1 in every 4 deaths.²

Edited September 12, 2021 by bull