My spies tell me Jabiru has been sold

[turboplanner]

6 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

AND what of birth defects, in all forms of animal life???

That lasted for the generation of people in those areas where the bombs fell. I knew one woman who emigrated to Australia from Horishima. She was there when the bomb dropped. At times her finger nails would bleed and she would be in pain, but the children she raised in Hiroshima were fine.

Edited December 4, 2023 by turboplanner

[aro]

Industry is never going to buy nuclear power, it's too expensive.

Already, solar and wind are producing enough power that prices sometimes go negative at times of high production (during the day, when solar is producing and happily industry tends to be most active). Industry would rather build storage and buy cheap power (or even be paid to take it) than buy expensive nuclear power.

Storage for industry has the advantage that it doesn't need to be portable, so weight and size are not such an issue. Cheap materials are more important than e.g. low weight.

The nuclear industry knows they have missed the boat. They are desperately trying to convince people they need their expensive power so they don't have to write off their investments.

[FlyBoy1960]

Just put a Sub off the coast and run a power lead to the mainland, one for each major city.

 

Problem solved

[pmccarthy]

Consider Broome. They run on gas delivered by trucks. Solar will not work for four months of the year. Windmills will not survive a cyclone. Tidal, with the biggest tides in the world, is not environmentally possible. A package nuclear plant would be perfect. They have existed for nearly 70 years in submarines, with no disaster.

[LoonyBob]

Gamma radiation destroys atomic nuclii. Any structure made of atoms will be degraded and then destroyed by such radiation. It's a question of how long...

 

MIL-HDBK-5(G, I think) gives advice on how long austenitic stainless steels can remain structurally reliable as the cooling pipes for a reactor core... about 3~5 years, from memory.

 

Fission is attractive from this aspect, because it requires magnetic containment. A fragment of the Sun, contained in a magnetic bottle - what could go wrong?

 

As has already been mentioned, the duration of the risk and the magnitude of the potential harm makes local (earth-based) nuclear an extremely poor option. Montgomery Burns approves...

[BrendAn]

1 minute ago, LoonyBob said:

Gamma radiation destroys atomic nuclii. Any structure made of atoms will be degraded and then destroyed by such radiation. It's a question of how long...

 

MIL-HDBK-5(G, I think) gives advice on how long austenitic stainless steels can remain structurally reliable as the cooling pipes for a reactor core... about 3~5 years, from memory.

 

Fission is attractive from this aspect, because it requires magnetic containment. A fragment of the Sun, contained in a magnetic bottle - what could go wrong?

 

As has already been mentioned, the duration of the risk and the magnitude of the potential harm makes local (earth-based) nuclear an extremely poor option. Montgomery Burns approves...

Bruce Banner had no problem with gamma rays

[spacesailor]

ONE QUESTION ! .

To the people who Want ' solar on every roof ' .

You should kick the government in the arse. 

The houses that will supply the biggest percentage of power to the ' grid  ' ,

Are locked out of the " subsidies scene " by the $ 250 monthly power bill cap.

When we don't use All the power, it Will feed the grid .

From 3 Kw usage to 6 Kw grid feed in .

The roof is large enough that a 9 Kw system  could fit easily .

But no subsidies available. 

spacesailor

plus a dozen more locked out in this one street .

 

 

 

 

[LoonyBob]

5 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

ONE QUESTION ! .

To the people who Want ' solar on every roof ' .

You should kick the government in the arse. 

The houses that will supply the biggest percentage of power to the ' grid  ' ,

Are locked out of the " subsidies scene " by the $ 250 monthly power bill cap.

When we don't use All the power, it Will feed the grid .

From 3 Kw usage to 6 Kw grid feed in .

The roof is large enough that a 9 Kw system  could fit easily .

But no subsidies available. 

spacesailor

plus a dozen more locked out in this one street .

 

 

 

 

We live in an Oligarchy... Google "State Capture".

[turboplanner]

9 hours ago, aro said:

Industry is never going to buy nuclear power, it's too expensive.

Already, solar and wind are producing enough power that prices sometimes go negative at times of high production (during the day, when solar is producing and happily industry tends to be most active). Industry would rather build storage and buy cheap power (or even be paid to take it) than buy expensive nuclear power.

Storage for industry has the advantage that it doesn't need to be portable, so weight and size are not such an issue. Cheap materials are more important than e.g. low weight.

The nuclear industry knows they have missed the boat. They are desperately trying to convince people they need their expensive power so they don't have to write off their investments.

The major cost of Nuclear is its prime cost. Big countries can pay for the construction, then get their money back by sales over a very long period - 60+ years. On that model they can sell nuclear power cheap. For the present scenario Australia can't finance that and the lead time of around 2065 is to far away for the global warmists in any case.

 

Solar and wind have fixed outputs at which they can sell power cheaply. Australia made the mistake of letting them have an open market so they've been taking business off Coal-fired plants which always relied on base load, the idle load to prevent boilers from cooling and cracking. Without the base load income coal-fired becomes non-viable and we've seen an exodus from Australia to the point where we are now being conditioned to accept on hot days this summer, because it's only the few coal-fired power stations left that can stoke up to peak power.

 

Battery storage comes with its own issues. Battery life is finite and batteries are a replacement item on a cycle of time. All over Australia up until the 1960s farmers generated their own power with stationary engines and generators, or windmill size towered generators driven by the wind, which charged a bank of batteries and provided 32 volt power to light the house and run the refrigerator and washing machine etc. When the batteries went flat you had to go out in the rain, get a time of petrol, crank the engine and wait until it generated enough to make the lights come on. Those with plenty of money had a Lister diesel engine driving the generator. When you flipped a light switch the light would come on and it would also trigger the starter motor of the Lister which would go until it brought the batteries up to full charge, but you had a big fuel bill at the end of the month. Not a good system if you were sneaking home with someone's daughter at 4 am either.

 

[skippydiesel]

11 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

Consider Broome. They run on gas delivered by trucks. Solar will not work for four months of the year. Windmills will not survive a cyclone. Tidal, with the biggest tides in the world, is not environmentally possible. A package nuclear plant would be perfect. They have existed for nearly 70 years in submarines, with no disaster.

"Windmills will not survive a cyclone."

Don't know, just for the debate - isn't there a vertical wind (drum) mill that will withstand cyclonic  winds?

"They have existed for nearly 70 years in submarines, with no disaster."

Hold on - haven't the Russians lost a nuclear sub - may not have been caused by the reactor but what of the radiation that is/will leak into the ocean?

 

[facthunter]

Yes . A pinch of Salt is needed there.. Broome has a tide of 27 feet. and it happens  as long as the Moon stays in orbit . Nev

Edited December 4, 2023 by facthunter

[facthunter]

"base load power" is a distraction. It's the peaks we have problems with and sudden changes AND cost. Solar PV is the cheapest by a large Margin. The grid is a major cost and a source of potential unreliability . Nev

Edited December 4, 2023 by facthunter

[Carbon Canary]

2 hours ago, Arron25 said:

Can those more up with the situation tell me what happened to the Liquid Salt/ Solar Furnace system..

Read about it too long ago ... Base load power ..No fancy solar photovoltaic just mirrors.. I believe early ones in Spain and then on to other places in Europe with larger systems

I often wonder if it Was that the return/Subsidies to the installer wasn't as enticing as on the PV farms and not actually about installing an efficient long term solution system.

The Aurora project was sold to 1414 degrees and will be converted to solar PV and molten silicon storage for dispatchable energy. 
 

View the 1414 degrees website.

[kgwilson]

Whether windmills will withstand a cyclone or not doesn't matter. There are none in Australia. We do have quite a few wind turbines though and as far as I know none are actually in cyclone zones.

 

The owners of Eraring, Australias biggest coal fired power plant, Origin refused a takeover offer due to a major Superannuation investor tipping the vote. Eraring is losing origin a fortune as like all coal plants it has to run pretty much flat out all the time and during the day green energy from solar and wind has reduced the spot  price so much it sometimes goes negative. The price of coal is hastening its own demise as it cannot hope to compete with cheap renewable energy. I reckon that if Origin invested heavily in huge battery storage close to Eraring it would be able to use the existing infrastructure both to store cheap renewable energy during the day and supply it at night.

[Carbon Canary]

AGL is building a monster battery just up the road at Tomago.

[LoonyBob]

What about emulating the Pentagon's emergency energy storage? We've got better composite technology now...

 

[spacesailor]

BUT ( JUST TO THROW A SPANNER ) .

Have they found a way to Recycle those ' super sized ' carbon plates.  

YET.

spacesailor

[LoonyBob]

6 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

BUT ( JUST TO THROW A SPANNER ) .

Have they found a way to Recycle those ' super sized ' carbon plates.  

YET.

spacesailor

Just burn 'em, then extraxt the carbon from the smoke...

[spacesailor]

AGAIN " A I "

Super sized carbon BLADES .  ( As in " wind-turbine).

I Did reread it  & missed that changed word  ! .

Or , did it change ' after ' posting.

spacesailor

PS triple proof reading , before hitting button, 

 

[facthunter]

carbon fibre with deadly resins. You have to be careful working with that stuff. It finished the maker of the Britten Motorcycle. (a NZ chap of great talent).    Nev

[LoonyBob]

11 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

AGAIN " A I "

Super sized carbon BLADES .  ( As in " wind-turbine).

I Did reread it  & missed that changed word  ! .

Or , did it change ' after ' posting.

spacesailor

PS triple proof reading , before hitting button, 

 

Oh, them thangs... yer missed the word "economically". A process about as complex as oil refining is needed to discombobulate the aged resin without poisoning the scenery, as Nev mentions; but it can certainly be done. Are all the industrial chemists on holidays?

 

A brute force approabing,  is to oxidise the monsters at elevated temperature, which separates the matrix (resin) from the carbon fibre, but is likely to atrophy said carbon fibre. If done in a "bomb", said gases can then be scrubbed*, hydrolysed, and alkylated, or otherwise molested into a useful form. There WILL be an energy cost...

 

*Nope, dunno what form of scrubbing, would have to study the chemistry closely...

Edited December 5, 2023 by LoonyBob

[spacesailor]

It is a pity they can't be used for  building trusses or spars . 

OR , anything! .

It would be better than the present day. " Burials " . 

spacesailor

[Litespeed]

21 hours ago, BrendAn said:

you have no clue what is being done in nuclear development. i put links up but none of you bother having a look. 

No, 

I have been watching, researching and carefully sorting the truth from the wishful and intentionally distorted thinking for 30 plus years.

 

I vet my sources with academic rigour , I don't just accept what a pro nuclear lobby group wants. Nor the LNP attempts to do anything to stop sensible progress.

 

I did look at your links and whilst some have merit for unique situations, as grid power they are woefully underdeveloped, massively expensive, poisonous to life and never account for the  true costs born by the public purse and the plant.

 

After 80 years of the largest government funded R&D program in history, it's still a power system thats a market failure. Even assuming it never fails and never pollutes, the costs far exceed the benefits. Never has more money been spent in history, for so little result,  but a massive legacy of environmental and economic debt for thousands of years.

 

Renewable power can do all our our power needs far faster, easier and quantum's cheaper, this is also undisputed. Even large miners and manufacturing plants are investing in renewable power.

They already know what's economic and works, they don't do it for Woke reasons.

 

 

They are hard headed money men and can see the wind direction.

 

[Litespeed]

22 hours ago, BrendAn said:

10 minutes ago the liberals were on the news saying nuclear power needs to be legalised in australia.

And last week they were protesting here at Port Stephens, saying far offshore wind turbines would kill the Whales, destroy tourism and kill the economy.

 

They quoted research that never existed, fraudulently claiming a respected expert scientist  wrote it. 100% intentional bullshit for political aims.

 

Followed by more Nuclear propaganda.

 

Do we notice a pattern going on ?

 

 

[Litespeed]

22 hours ago, BrendAn said:

i have absolutely no interest in worrying about what could or could not happen.

i am talking about electricity to run the country. 

with all the woke bullshit in victoria these days we should just shut the state down and sit at home with our solar panels. the daniels government were determined to shut down our industry to appease the greens. now that puppet jacinta is doing dans bidding. no gas in new homes. no exploration, no logging.  rant over.

 

I think I now understand, you don't worry about the consequences of your choices as long as it fits your comfortable world view.

 

Beliefs are not facts or science.