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RAAus access to class C and D airspace.


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5 hours ago, Freizeitpilot said:

 

....and now the latest from "Australian Flying" magazine.......

 

CASA to reconvene Part 103 Working Group - Australian Flying

 

Glaciers move a lot faster.

The GFA and Ballooning federation have had CTA access from day 1, there’s no reason why suitably trained / assessed RAAus pilots operating suitable airplanes shouldn’t have access today.

 

I am require to maintain my GA quals to fly my RAA rego Piper Cub out of a Class D airport. I did my last AFR at a Class G airport, zero assessment of my Class D skills, it’s total BS. 

Edited by Roundsounds
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I'm thinking of running for the board. The RAAUS office is 2km from the factory....

it's this time of year isnt it, might be too late.

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14 hours ago, Roundsounds said:

The GFA and Ballooning federation have had CTA access from day 1, there’s no reason why suitably trained / assessed RAAus pilots operating suitable airplanes shouldn’t have access today. 

You do.

Check the training requirements (which students in these areas do before first solo, and aircraft equipment requirements.)

People just haven't bothered to read the documents.

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15 hours ago, RFguy said:

I'm thinking of running for the board. The RAAUS office is 2km from the factory....

it's this time of year isnt it, might be too late.

Yes, it is too late.  3 positions available, and they closed 15 July.  Applications open in June, so get organised in May.  Elections usually in August (unless uncontested), results in November, start at the February AGM. 

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10 hours ago, turboplanner said:

You do.

Check the training requirements (which students in these areas do before first solo, and aircraft equipment requirements.)

People just haven't bothered to read the documents.

You can not enter controlled airspace without an RPL. An raaus aircraft can if equipped for it but the pilot must have RPL not rpc. And RPL pilot needs an rpc to fly raaus. 

Edited by BrendAn
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1 minute ago, kgwilson said:

Or PPL and the aircraft has to be fitted with a transponder which is silly given balloons & gliders don't.

I don't know where turbo gets his information. Why would raaus be working on gaining access if it's already available.

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1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

I don't know where turbo gets his information. Why would raaus be working on gaining access if it's already available.

(a) I read the documents rather than get information from Social Media.

(b) RA people have been asking for it.

(c) I read the posts from Instructors and students on this site who have told us what has to be done to legally fly.

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8 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

(a) I read the documents rather than get information from Social Media.

(b) RA people have been asking for it.

(c) I read the posts from Instructors and students on this site who have told us what has to be done to legally fly.

I downloaded the information from casa and it is exactly as I thought.

You must have an RPL to fly . Just because raaus schools operate in these areas does not mean the student is free to do what they want once they get their rpc.  I have looked into raaus training at Moorabbin a while back.

Edited by BrendAn
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4 hours ago, BrendAn said:

I don't know where turbo gets his information. Why would raaus be working on gaining access if it's already available.

RAA is trying to get the radio endorsement for CTA so we don't have to attain an RPL.  And set some additional requirements for the RAA aircraft.

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15 hours ago, turboplanner said:

(a) I read the documents rather than get information from Social Media.

(b) RA people have been asking for it.

(c) I read the posts from Instructors and students on this site who have told us what has to be done to legally fly.

How abaout actually being helpful and either giving people the information you are refering to, or providing a link to the information.

If you have information that says an RPC holder (without an RPL or PPL and not a student) can access Class D or Class C airspace, please share it.

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I'm curious as to what people think they'll achieve getting cta access? If you're looking at keeping your aircraft at a class d aerodrome, I'm going to suggest the cost of rpl and training will be trivial compared to airfield tie down and usage fees ( at least for ymmb ).

 

Second here's the sum total of most of my ga vfr class c transition for Melbourne experience. Request airways... xyz clearance unavailable remain octa... as I'm already routing via Bacchus or Lilydale.

 

Sometimes better for other control zones.

 

Just because you have the endorsement / privilege doesn't mean the understaffed and user pays mob at ASA will be keen to deal with you and your 24 reg bug smasher.

 

It isn't the usa where you're actually treated as a pilot regardless of what you fly.

 

If you're that keen and need it now, just do the training and meet the requirements.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'm curious as to what people think they'll achieve getting cta access? If you're looking at keeping your aircraft at a class d aerodrome, I'm going to suggest the cost of rpl and training will be trivial compared to airfield tie down and usage fees ( at least for ymmb ).

 

Second here's the sum total of most of my ga vfr class c transition for Melbourne experience. Request airways... xyz clearance unavailable remain octa... as I'm already routing via Bacchus or Lilydale.

 

Sometimes better for other control zones.

 

Just because you have the endorsement / privilege doesn't mean the understaffed and user pays mob at ASA will be keen to deal with you and your 24 reg bug smasher.

 

It isn't the usa where you're actually treated as a pilot regardless of what you fly.

 

If you're that keen and need it now, just do the training and meet the requirements.

 

 

In the Sydney region we are going to loose a lot of airspace due to the new Western Sydney Airport and also loosing Ballina. There may be a proposal for different airspace for Shellharbour as well. It's getting difficult and dangerous for the diversions we have to do to avoid the airspace.

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1 hour ago, RossK said:

How abaout actually being helpful and either giving people the information you are refering to, or providing a link to the information.

If you have information that says an RPC holder (without an RPL or PPL and not a student) can access Class D or Class C airspace, please share it.

He realised he got it wrong and has gone quiet. 

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On 15/8/2024 at 6:09 AM, turboplanner said:

You do.

Check the training requirements (which students in these areas do before first solo, and aircraft equipment requirements.)

People just haven't bothered to read the documents.

You’re wrong

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6 hours ago, MattP said:

I'm curious as to what people think they'll achieve getting cta access? If you're looking at keeping your aircraft at a class d aerodrome, I'm going to suggest the cost of rpl and training will be trivial compared to airfield tie down and usage fees ( at least for ymmb ).

 

Second here's the sum total of most of my ga vfr class c transition for Melbourne experience. Request airways... xyz clearance unavailable remain octa... as I'm already routing via Bacchus or Lilydale.

 

Sometimes better for other control zones.

 

Just because you have the endorsement / privilege doesn't mean the understaffed and user pays mob at ASA will be keen to deal with you and your 24 reg bug smasher.

 

It isn't the usa where you're actually treated as a pilot regardless of what you fly.

 

If you're that keen and need it now, just do the training and meet the requirements.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, mkennard said:

In the Sydney region we are going to loose a lot of airspace due to the new Western Sydney Airport and also loosing Ballina. There may be a proposal for different airspace for Shellharbour as well. It's getting difficult and dangerous for the diversions we have to do to avoid the airspace.

 

Dont even mention ShellHarbour !

 

When Western Sydney International opens (Dec 2026?) greater Sydney will be all C or D.

If we do not have CTA endorsements by then you are talking about a long detour out west for north or south bound traffic.

 

Edited by BurnieM
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7 hours ago, RossK said:

How abaout actually being helpful and either giving people the information you are refering to, or providing a link to the information.

If you have information that says an RPC holder (without an RPL or PPL and not a student) can access Class D or Class C airspace, please share it.

How about just going on the CASA site which provides the requirements. You have to take your own liability on this; it has added responsibilities like flying with Charter and RPT.

 

What I said on 12/5/24 was "You may not be neatly in one camp or the other, but you're not wanting to fly in one camp either."

 

As MattP said "If you're that keen and need it now, just do the training and meet the requirements."

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18 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

How about just going on the CASA site which provides the requirements. You have to take your own liability on this; it has added responsibilities like flying with Charter and RPT.

 

What I said on 12/5/24 was "You may not be neatly in one camp or the other, but you're not wanting to fly in one camp either."

 

As MattP said "If you're that keen and need it now, just do the training and meet the requirements."

The topic is raa access to controlled airspace. If you do the the training as you say. Then you have to become a GA pilot.

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1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

The topic is raa access to controlled airspace. If you do the the training as you say. Then you have to become a GA pilot.

Yes, I know what the topic is, but you need to go on the CASA site because you would be flying to CASA regulations.

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1 minute ago, turboplanner said:

Yes, I know what the topic is, but you need to go on the CASA site because you would be flying to CASA regulations.

I posted a casa page earlier. 

But that is not what this is about. Raa are trying to get rpc holders access and that's what this thread is about. I understand what you are saying but that is converting to RPL.

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24 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

I posted a casa page earlier. 

But that is not what this is about. Raa are trying to get rpc holders access and that's what this thread is about. I understand what you are saying but that is converting to RPL.

This "CASA" document?

xRAAP14.pdf

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25 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

I posted a casa page earlier. 

But that is not what this is about. Raa are trying to get rpc holders access and that's what this thread is about. I understand what you are saying but that is converting to RPL.

Perhaps the topic could be headed "RAAus access to class C & D airspace, without RPL ; How / when?"  Then maybe an instructor could give an update on where RAAus is at the moment; or say they cannot yet provide details of any such progress.  I recon the later would be the reply, if any.

 

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13 hours ago, BrendAn said:

I posted a casa page earlier. 

But that is not what this is about. Raa are trying to get rpc holders access and that's what this thread is about. I understand what you are saying but that is converting to RPL.

You realise that this RAA/CT access 'debate'... is JUST an RAA Con Job...

From what I understand the training to be required for an RPC holder to get access..  IS the same as training to achieve RPL ..

 

When a pilot gets RPL, he is then a GA pilot, who now has access to Permanent rego /No 'club' membership needed aircraft..

Most reasonable RAA aircraft all have the possibility of 'conversion to GA.. and removed from the RAA register.

 

RPL & GA rego is then ... NO RAA Fees... Ok none of the much vaunted 'insurance' etc.. but seriously.... But at the end of it all .. NO money to RAA...

 

Seems the majority of RAA members pay the money .. but just don't want to be involved.. (ie. the ridiculously low voting numbers)

so with the (correct) increased promotion of RPL .. the Cash Cow will have 'flown' (pun intended).

Edited by Arron25
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42 minutes ago, Arron25 said:

You realise that this RAA/CT access 'debate'... is JUST an RAA Con Job...

From what I understand the training to be required for an RPC holder to get access..  IS the same as training to achieve RPL ..

 

When a pilot gets RPL, he is then a GA pilot, who now has access to Permanent rego /No 'club' membership needed aircraft..

Most reasonable RAA aircraft all have the possibility of 'conversion to GA.. and removed from the RAA register.

 

RPL & GA rego is then ... NO RAA Fees... Ok none of the much vaunted 'insurance' etc.. but seriously.... But at the end of it all .. NO money to RAA...

 

Seems the majority of RAA members pay the money .. but just don't want to be involved.. (ie. the ridiculously low voting numbers)

so with the (correct) increased promotion of RPL .. the Cash Cow will have 'flown' (pun intended).

We had our last annual done by a GA LAME maintenance outfit. A very simple machine without an electrical system and billed $5K for the exercise. The cost of GA maintenance far outweighs the benefits. 
Just give RAAus the same airspace privileges extended to the GFA, it’s not rocket science!

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