fly_tornado Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I've not heard of the Juniper effect, the early seventies promoted a lot of weird conspiracy stuff I do remember the Chariots of the Gods film was amazing! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariots_of_the_Gods%3F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 So to be clear you do not believe in the phenomena called the greenhouse effect? Again the video you are attacking is for the most part not about climate change, it is not even controversial. Perhaps you could put forward your alternate theory on why the earth is the temeperature it is. Your criticlsm of this video centres on one statement which alerts us to an inittial simplification of the model which is then addressed. I just asked a question; I said I was now looking for factual data; but I'm being subjected to frenetic tutoring where the aim, apparently is to convince me of global warming. It does concern me to see a "scientist" come out and say "Stefan invented it". This may come as a surprise, but perhaps a key to the puzzle would be who the hell is Stefan and why did he have to invent something? I'm not excited enough to come up with an "alternative theory", I'm just going after facts, and questioning each one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Somewhere I have read that educating women, and generally improving incomes, are the most effective way to quickly bring down the birth rate. I think Bjorn Lomberg agrees. His point is that we should spend our limited resources on achieving those goals, not on building windmills. And we should not try to stop developing countries from using fossil fuels to quickly raise their standard of living. I agree 100% that educating women brings down the birth rate. However it's already proven that renewables are actually cheaper than fossil fuels for power generation. Are you saying we should hold developing countries back by making them pay more for fossil fuel generation, rather than skipping that step and going straight to the cheaper renewables? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I've not heard of the Juniper effect, the early seventies promoted a lot of weird conspiracy stuff I do remember the Chariots of the Gods film was amazing! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariots_of_the_Gods%3F I find this hard to believe, but you must have been distracted aroud that time and missed the sequel "Crash go the Chariots" which levelled the playing field again and cut old Eric down to size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Does anyone remember the famous scientists forecast, and associated book - "The Jupiter Effect". No? Well, I do. I was one of the unknowing plebs sucked into the prediction, and who believed the "experts", and who spread the story far and wide. T....................................................................................... These forward predictions fall into the range of pure speculation, and the climate-change "believers" are caught up in what is basically a climate change cult, that borders on religion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jupiter_Effect https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ten-notable-apocalypses-that-obviously-didnt-happen-9126331/ Fair comment BUT you are comparing a one off event - couple of nutty professors, writing one book (possibly as a money making "lark") with the decades of scientific evidence & study of an entire scientific community. One bad experience should not condemn all future interaction. True any future prediction has a degree of speculation. We do not have the knowledge to see into the future. Every manager of resources/money uses past events/experience to try and make/predict plans for a better future - this is a daily occurrence but we dont poke fun/doubt at their efforts - even when they get it wrong. Why? because we have no other tool for making predictions. When you fly/drive/walk you can not know for a fact what will happen but you predict the weather for a safe flight, you assume other road users will abide by the road rules and you hope that you wont put your foot into a rabbit hole as you walk across the paddock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I worked in IT during the Y2K bug hysteria and it was amazing how the media whipped up the general hysteria about its likely effects, planes falling out of sky and nuclear plants exploding. The IT industry was happy to comment and make suggestions that people get their systems inspected(?), Microsoft went as far as rebranding NT as 2000 to future proof business computers. On a retail level, smaller shops ringing customers and telling them that there 18 month old home PC is not "certified Y2K safe" and needs replacing. Its very hard for uninformed people to resist this sort of pressure (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) when the media gets behind one side of a story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I just asked a question; I said I was now looking for factual data; but I'm being subjected to frenetic tutoring where the aim, apparently is to convince me of global warming. It does concern me to see a "scientist" come out and say "Stefan invented it". This may come as a surprise, but perhaps a key to the puzzle would be who the hell is Stefan and why did he have to invent something? I'm not excited enough to come up with an "alternative theory", I'm just going after facts, and questioning each one. turbo they did not say that stefan invented it. They refer to the Stefan Boltzmann constant. This is fairly basic physics and has many applications in physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yenn in the Territory and other jurisdictions I’m aware of firebreaks are a legal requirement... Are you staying they aren’t in QLD? Firebreaks are not subject to land clearing regulations, at least not here Alan A road is a good start to a firebreak, and will stop most travelling grass fires on a calm day, but as the wind speed increases you need a bigger gap to allow embers to fall. Getting rid of roadside trees, grading the verges and baling hay off the grass every year gives a 1 chain plus firebreak (20 metres, 60 for the threechain roads), and eliminates the need for governments to fit cable barriers wherever there are solid trees, but that removes the "bush" feel of many roads, and habitat for wildlife. For some reason, property owners through the ages have planted highly flammable trees around their boundaries, particularly the road boundary. Current theory seems to be leaning towards a return to hedgerows across paddocks for stock shelter and faster pasture growth, but planting several kilometres of fire load around the border of a paddock to give 360 degree protection of stock seems wasteful, and a central plantation in the paddock allowing stock to camp downwind would take up a lot less pasture area, and we could increase the fire break by another 40 metres at the road, so now we're out to a 60 - 100 metre fire break area with fuel cut to 100 metres. In theory, this would allow a reasonably big fire to be stopped at a road, below a certain wind strength. However: It would't help property owners protect the homestead and sheds, where they can usually put a much bigger firebreak + plus earn money by planting lucerne etc. And there are three problems: The freshly cut paddocks in the Ash Wednesday fires in Western Victoria proved to be a hazard when it was noticed that fire was running across them at wind speed (which was substantial) making them impossible to keep up with, whereas the heavily fueled roadsides were generating their own updraft which kept the more almost stationary. Road firebreaks become irrelevent when the fire is intense eough to spot ahead; usually jumping 1 kilometre or so, but reported this year in NSW at 30 to 40 km. Where there are eucalypts and the heat starts the oil evaporating, whole valleys can exploding 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Please don’t confuse overpopulation and pollution, very real problems, with human induced climate change, which is a political device. Humans will not significantly change the climate, for good or ill.... That's the crux of our disagreement, PM. I've discussed this with lots of people who cannot conceive of tiny little humans making a difference to the climate. The same thinking was once applied to hunting the American Bison; in a few decades it went from herds of millions to the brink of extinction. The passenger pigeon went from flocks blocking out the sun to total extinction in a few short years. The atmosphere has been massively changed by much smaller critters than humans; tiny microbes once filled it with the oxygen we depend on. Can you not conceive of any impact when billions of people are using machines to pour several different greenhouse-enhancing gases into our atmosphere? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 The "usual" Rows of Cypress as windbreaks are a menace, They ensure a fire to your door. Firespotting can go kilometers. I've witnessed it at Macedon where quite large (Long) branches were carried these sorts of distances. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 This was a promoted video the YouTube advertising algorithm suggested for this morning, I wonder how many people clicked on the ad Y5MWErPKCgA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, fly_tornado said: This was a promoted video the YouTube advertising algorithm suggested for this morning, I wonder how many people clicked on the ad Someone had to FT, God love you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I agree 100% that educating women brings down the birth rate. However it's already proven that renewables are actually cheaper than fossil fuels for power generation. Are you saying we should hold developing countries back by making them pay more for fossil fuel generation, rather than skipping that step and going straight to the cheaper renewables? Just one more point - education of women must go hand in hand with improved health care and nutrition. High birth rate in any species is linked to high infant mortality/low survival. Religions, social customs and sometimes politics seek to control/promote this view, so education is needed for women to question the "norms" but they will not do so if their is not a very good chance that their baby's will survive. If the the affluent "West" is serious about population control it must understand this and be prepared to finance the lifting of people out of ignorance & poverty . I realise this is a diametrically opposed to the current approach by Governments, which is putting most of its $$ into military alliances & campaigns which in generally entrenches the general population in ignorance & poverty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Someone had to FT, God love you too. the general gist of the video is that God's love is earnt and also tax deductible over $2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I see the call is out for the two firies from Western Sydney to be given a state funeral, Anyone agreeing with it ? spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I see the call is out for the two firies from Western Sydney to be given a state funeral, Anyone agreeing with it ? spacesailor Yes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I see the call is out for the two firies from Western Sydney to be given a state funeral, Anyone agreeing with it ? spacesailor Absolutely. The family of anyone who gives their life for their community should be given this option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Politicians often get Sate Funerals but they never put their lives on the line for the community. More often it is the other way around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Someone had to FT, God love you too. Who's Dog? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 We all have the answer, its the very studied and factual speech given by a juvenile scandinavian who seems to have major psychological issues so it must be true. Obviously the many scientists who have studied for years and kept and analysed records for generations must be wrong, after all, an iumpassioned speech to the august UN body must be believed. Lemmjings leap off cliffs because they are cfonvinced their leader knows where to go, climate conspiracy theorists seem to be doing the same thing. Remember folks, at the end of the day, FOLLOW THE MONEY, and who is making it before believing anything this wild. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I see the call is out for the two firies from Western Sydney to be given a state funeral, Anyone agreeing with it ? spacesailor Absolutely. Why would we not give them a statae funeral, they died to protect us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 FOLLOW THE MONEY Australia digs up and exports a 1/3 of the world's coal. QLD, NSW and Victoria state governments all rely on the billions that coal royalties brings in. Even the National party has decided to throw their lot in with the coal mining. We'll destroy agriculture before we stop mining coal 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Yes follow the big money exxon perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I agree 100% that educating women brings down the birth rate. However it's already proven that renewables are actually cheaper than fossil fuels for power generation. Are you saying we should hold developing countries back by making them pay more for fossil fuel generation, rather than skipping that step and going straight to the cheaper renewables? Renewables cannot in any way replace coal at present in countries like China and India, presumably Africa too though I don't know about it. I hope they will in years to come but at present China and India together are building hundreds of coal fired power stations. They are locking in 30+ years of coal power, nothing we say or do will change that. And they must have done their sums, if renewables were viable for them they would go that way. We can dream the green dream but economic reality will prevail. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 They are locking in 30+ years of coal power https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/chinese-coal-power-panic/ TLDR; 121 Gw of coal power under construction, 25 Gw suspended but likely to go ahead lets say 148 Gw in China as of November 2019 ... down from a forecast 259 Gw in September 2018. We can't do anything about it but they are doing something. One explanation might be that both China and India are seeing explosive growth in renewables beyond what their coal fired assets are needed to supply. Another might be that they are both factoring a big slow down in economic growth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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