If you are flight planning for an around Australia trip for 12 months. What......

[skippydiesel]

3 minutes ago, NT5224 said:

I have little doubt that Faeta are excellent aircraft. They look great and so they probably fly great too. We all know the Czechs build good small aircraft.

 

But the  specific question is whether one would make the best touring aircraft for a lap?  My personal feeling is that aircraft with bubble canopies are just not climate appropriate in northern Australia. Unless you want to wear a hat and sun cream all way round... Perhaps there is a tropical model with a opaque canopy?  Also  I would always favour high wing  and tail dragger for the bush and rough strips.  Thats not to say that low wing trikes are inferior. We are discussing a very specific mission here.

 

Alan

 

All fair comments NT

 

Will come back to you on this "dinner is served"

 

[kasper]

Are the moderators able to split this thread?

 

I’d appreciate all the argy bargy on the ATEC aircraft being split off and leave just the touring OZ thread comments.

 

Thanks in advance if this can be achieved. 

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

 

All fair comments NT

 

Will come back to you on this "dinner is served"

 

Back again:

 

Bubble Canopies V High wing (without top window) - I can only speak from personal experience.

I trained in Cessna’s & converted to RAA in Jabs - to be honest I was so pleased to be flying, I never thought to consider the evident benefit in being in an expensive sun shade and having windows that can be opened while taxying and in flight. They can still get very hot though, not sure why, may be engine heat.

I now fly a low wing with bubble canopy. I do have some automotive static cling reflective sunshade stuff (AutoBarn) on the upper inside, covering about 1/3 at a guess, does a fair job at a very low cost. One of those concertina blinds would probably be better but cost about 800% more.

Yes, in summer I wear a broad brimmed "bonnet" - one of those nifties but defiantly not flattering, jobs with that are headset compatible and I use sun screen (when I remember).

It might be hard to believe but I don’t much notice the heat - two small sliding side windows in my Zephyr canopy work tolerably well and two big eyeball vents, located each side below the instrument panel (donated by a Mercedes W123), seem to take the edge of the summer heat, on the ground. Side vents are a bit noisy to have open when airborne and eyeball vents are very efficient in the air - so once airborne things become coooool very quickly

I guess for me, the unobstructed view, is what makes the bubble attractive, even with its evident but tolerable sunshade shortcomings

Probably not a good sales comment: Something not mentioned but you should consider. As you get older, upper body strength & general flexibility tends to diminish - getting into my cockpit is quite easy, once you know how - getting out is defiantly becoming more challenging. On occasion, I have had a passenger that really struggled and I almost "bust the poofer valve" helping extract them. This is a definite plus for most high wings, which can often be mounted in a very lady like fashion - derrière parked on cushion first, swing legs in after & reverse for exit.

 

Tail Dragger V Nose Wheel

I am not tail dragger rated so can only pass on what I have read/heard and observed.

The idea behind the tail wheel being more appropriate for unmade airstrips, is most likely because early nose wheels were (& still are on many aircraft) quite flimsy affairs. The small tail wheel does not carry a high load and is being dragged over the ruts & rocks, both of which would seem to result is less stress/load – so less likely to fail. The nose wheel, carries a greater load & is in effect being pushed, both of which increase stress. Not very scientific I grant you but paints a picture – tail dragger the winner.

 

If you are going to fit oversized wheels to your aircraft it makes more sense & is probably easier and slightly more aerodynamic to fit only two on the mains – taildragger has the clear advantage

 

It is clear to me that a nose wheel aircraft can perform STOL just as well as tail draggers so no winner there.

 

It is also clear to me, that it’s how you handle your aircraft on the ground which makes the difference – does your nose wheel land first, at the same time or a long time later (when speed has reduced considerably)? Do you taxi and corner at high speed?

A well-designed nose wheel fairing will negate most of the air speed loses/drag from having such a structure hanging out in the slip stream. A nose wheel will give you greater confidence in X wind landings and the ability to brake harder in a short field situation should you need to (less chance of a ground loop) and will allow more confident taxying in blustery quartering winds. And lastly a nose wheel allows for greater visibility/safety, on the ground, for almost all activities – nose wheel is well ahead in my view.

 

In the landing role, I was trained to keep the nose wheel of the ground as long as possible. Because I was taught in the bush, on dirt strips, I was also taught to reduce the load on my nose wheel when taxying or in the TO run, by carrying “back” elevator at all times. I like to watch other aviators TO/Landing & taxying – so many do not care for their nose wheel.

 

So, I guess I am biased, and although I recently came close to purchasing a tail wheel, I think the nose wheel on most modern RAA aircraft is a much more robust structure than in the past and its presence confers many more advantages than the tail wheel configuration (a tail wheel will always look better).

 

 

 

[NT5224]

All good points Skippy.

 

A good pilot can fly any configuration of aircraft most places. However as a tailwheel pilot myself based at an outback strip, I consider conventional configuration offers a number of advantages for Bush flying. Possibly tougher undercarriage as you point out,  but more important is propeller clearance... There is also something to be said for the  angle of attack tail wheel configuration offers.

 

But hey, the trade off is a really slow cruise and many would feel a faster aircraft better suited to long distance touring... Its just a matter of personal preferences I guess...

 

Alan

[pmccarthy]

I flew a bubble canopy for five years and was very happy with it in all weathers. It can be hot on the ground, but is fine once you are up and flying. I would be more concerned that it had a good rollover bar built in.

[turboplanner]

In answer to the original question I wouldn't choose an RA aircraft, I'd pick a Cessna 206 which has the capacity to take one to four people, plenty of food/spare fuel, heaps of base range, touring flight panel, HF radio etc. and can land at outback strips that are regularly used. It will also take a couple of mini bikes if just one or two people are doing the trip. The hourly rate will seem very high compared to say a Jab BUT, the cruise speed ensures a lot less hours, there's less time wasted doing novel things like carrying fuel on a push bike for 10 km, you fly in a bigger weather envelope, etc. Another alternative is the Cherokee Six - big load and fixed undercarriage. I went out with the Cherokee Six mail plane from Broken Hill years ago, tricycle undercarriage and we landed at about 18 stations all dirt and a few in knee high scrub.

 

I certainly wouldn't BUY an RA aircraft just for the trip; with an unknown quantity you could be somewhere like Boroloola and getting prices to truck your prize into Darwin where hopefuly someone might rebuild it for you.

 

The tricycle undercarriage was invented to stop weathercocking into strong winds, and the regular associated damage to wings etc from subsequent damage, and in string winds, allow a pilot-only take off in windy conditions.

 

The intent was to land on the mains, and like a wheeler landing only use the third wheel to hold the nose up and provide resistance to weather cocking. Landing nose up does that.

 

Landing nose down encourages wheel barrowing with its exponential bounces which will break the nose gear.

 

What NT says about tail wheel is correct; there is a theroretical strength advantage, however, where do you draw the line, where is the crossover point in real flying.

 

You are the PIC; you choose the airstrips, and most airstrips around Australia are relatively smooth. Commercial activity is tricycle. In the days when the main strip at Lightning Ridge was dirt I took up a passenger who marvelled that he couln't feel us actually land; dirt will do that for you unless the strip is disused with wombat holes or washaways, then it's just as likely to take our a taildragger and a nose wheel.

 

My benchmark for landing a Cherokee in a paddock is to drive a car on the area is 100 km/hr and if it's bouncing now and then, the airctaft will land smoothly.

 

It's all a matter of where that crossover point is; if you do your homework before you leave you plan the strips for your aircraft. That will be a lot better than just landing anywhere because you picked a taildragger, and then being wiped out because the last rains cut a hard to see channel across the strip.

 

People have travelled around Australia in rag and tube, up Cape York in rag and tube. Most of these people had ground crews. 12 months assumes you have a lot of time, and one way to do it in an RA airctraft is as a series of a lot of short trips. There's way less drama in making weather decisions, and much better intel on the state of strips and fuel availability etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skippydiesel]

13 hours ago, turboplanner said:

He doesn't have to supply commercil in confidence information. He's one of the few suppliers that puts up with some of the crap dished out here.

Thanks Turb's. You are a gentleman.

 

🤣You have certainly earned that whopping discount on your Faeta purchase😁

[turboplanner]

16 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Thanks Turb's. You are a gentleman.

 

🤣You have certainly earned that whopping discount on your Faeta purchase😁

I would certainly think of buying one.

[skippydiesel]

3 hours ago, turboplanner said:

I would certainly think of buying one.

Turbs dont do this to me the, geriatric salesman heart has started to beat very fast - CPR going to be needed any moment.🤩

[turboplanner]

11 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Turbs dont do this to me the, geriatric salesman heart has started to beat very fast - CPR going to be needed any moment.🤩

Training Module 1:           Tyre kickers

                                          Assess your potential customer

 

                                          Footnote: Don't get excited, it only saps your energy which is required when the customer says your

                                                            price is too high.

[skippydiesel]

38 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Training Module 1:           Tyre kickers

                                          Assess your potential customer

 

                                          Footnote: Don't get excited, it only saps your energy which is required when the customer says your

                                                            price is too high.

🤣😜

[alf jessup]

On 05/12/2020 at 12:20 PM, SSCBD said:

I rest the case,  looks very slow to me, and yes one up. But I agree that its bloody slow. 

 

 

The Faeta is very Tecnam Sierra looking in the fuselage but does not look like it has the dihedral in the wings like the Sierra does but it’s wingspan looks bigger than the Sierra, but overall it would be a lovely plane I think and it looks quite good.

[alf jessup]

1 minute ago, alf jessup said:

The Faeta is very Tecnam Sierra looking in the fuselage but does not look like it has the dihedral in the wings like the Sierra does but it’s wingspan looks bigger than the Sierra, but overall it would be a lovely plane I think and it looks quite good.

 

[walrus]

Is it even possible to fly coastal around Australia? I would have thought controlled airspace would preclude it. For example, Townsville, Cairns, Darwin and Perth look like absolute road blocks.

[SSCBD]

45 minutes ago, walrus said:

Is it even possible to fly coastal around Australia? I would have thought controlled airspace would preclude it. For example, Townsville, Cairns, Darwin and Perth look like absolute road blocks.

Of course common sense applies and go around all cta. Its not that hard. 

[Downunder]

On 06/12/2020 at 4:56 PM, kasper said:

Are the moderators able to split this thread?

 

I’d appreciate all the argy bargy on the ATEC aircraft being split off and leave just the touring OZ thread comments.

 

Thanks in advance if this can be achieved. 

Skippy has a long history of hijacking threads for.... commercial reasons.

And I'll note he's not a "First class  member", so not even donating to the site.

[skippydiesel]

37 minutes ago, Downunder said:

Skippy has a long history of hijacking threads for.... commercial reasons.

And I'll note he's not a "First class  member", so not even donating to the site.

Whattttt! are you for real? -  "hijacking threads for.... commercial reasons." Would you like to list/quote where I have instigated a "hijack" or initiated a thread for "commercial reasons". Yes I support the make of aircraft I fly in - not an unusual stance amongst the Forum membership and secondly its availability on the Australian market, in my openly acknowledged, role as co agent for the brand. I think you will find I am always responding to someone else's question/opinion. Perhaps you might like to provide some factual data, to support what might be seen, as your rather scurrilous accusation.

 

As for the financial membership - true! I am not a financial member. Just a very active supporter, hardly a shameful position. When there is little conversation happening, I do my darnedest to try and keep "things" moving by introducing new topics, even a bit of controversy and attempt at humour, to stimulate some action, demonstrating a commitment to the on going vibrant life of this forum.

[turboplanner]

10 hours ago, Downunder said:

Skippy has a long history of hijacking threads for.... commercial reasons.

And I'll note he's not a "First class  member", so not even donating to the site.

How about you take that back.

[old man emu]

Splitting the thread:

This request has been forwarded to the Moderators. I don't know how to do it, so have left it to Ian. 

 

There is a nasty side track in these last few posts that gentlemen should not be taking. (I wonder if this nastiness is COVID related.) Please consider using the PM facility to tell the person whose post you don't like why you are offended by it. And yes, I have been known to fail in this method - mea culpa.

 

So now let's get back on track and restrict this discussion to the original question: What aircraft in the RAA LSA category would you choose to do it in.  AND WHY? Note that the enquirer was asking about RAA LSA aircraft so that rules out most things with more than two seats.