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Lowering Class E between Melbourne and Cairns


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ADS-B transponders, TABS and EC devices dont rely on radar. The signals are received by ground stations. Amateurs can set these up for a few hundred dollars and feed the data into Flightradar24 etc. For air services the cost would be much higher but still cheap enough to have complete coverage in the J curve.

 

ADS-B transponders, TABS and EC devices dont need radar or ground stations or 3g,4g,5g to provide aircraft to aircraft traffic information. 

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RF guy, RAA and other organisations HAVE to reject this proposal out of hand or otherwise they are conceding Airservices the right to make arbitrary decisions. We are then reduced to just being suppli

Dont fall into their trap. To consider any change before a complete justification statement can be proven true and correct gives them leverage. By suggesting other than the status quo at this time say

'Welcome to OneSky™ Australia, where we want everyone to be included.' To be included in 'OneSky'™ will cost you about ten thousand dollars per aircraft for initial installation, An annual f

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. Amateurs can set these up for a few hundred dollars "Solar panels +Batteries +Transmitters, ! A few hundred dollars.

Can You supply me with that equipment, at that price?.  ( for My shed )

Amateurs !,  NO government department would even consider using non professionals.

BUT

I like the idea  ( 10 watt transmitter over 24 hours ( lack of sunshine day, Batt size = ? )).

I have 5 Old second-hand batts costing $90 from ebaa.

two 80 watt solar panels  $ 160 from the same place as batts.

Without an inverter, that's $250.

SO

Please supply New batteries, New solar panels, And an Inverter, as l have $ 200 waiting for you.

PS please mount those solar panels on the Shed roof as l'm too decrepit to Risk the climb.

Than you in advance.  ( should I tell the missus were having a visit, ? ) .

spacesailor

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16 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

. Amateurs can set these up for a few hundred dollars "Solar panels +Batteries +Transmitters, ! A few hundred dollars.

Can You supply me with that equipment, at that price?.  ( for My shed )

Amateurs !,  NO government department would even consider using non professionals.

BUT

I like the idea  ( 10 watt transmitter over 24 hours ( lack of sunshine day, Batt size = ? )).

I have 5 Old second-hand batts costing $90 from ebaa.

two 80 watt solar panels  $ 160 from the same place as batts.

Without an inverter, that's $250.

SO

Please supply New batteries, New solar panels, And an Inverter, as l have $ 200 waiting for you.

PS please mount those solar panels on the Shed roof as l'm too decrepit to Risk the climb.

Than you in advance.  ( should I tell the missus were having a visit, ? ) .

spacesailor

$200 bought me 10 x 250w 24v panels 2 weeks ago, heaps for sale up here in Rocky since insurance companies have been replacing hail damaged roofs:-)

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 insurance companies have been replacing hail damaged roofs "

How do you use damaged panels !. LoL

BUT

I need 12 volt.  24v is a bit more than needed.

My 80 watt are 19 v open circuit and 12v under load, perfect for charging batteries, with a Zenner diode lighting a globe when getting over 13.8 volts, I disconnect them.

A simple circuit that could have a solenoid disconnect would be better.

Use a regulator !, but my circuit is Full bore ( Amps ) when on, not reduced by those tiny circuits in the regulator.

( AND Thruster is getting me some nice New ones ) LoL

spacesailor

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One smashed panel, they condemn the rest that are all OK, a big waste but......insurance companies don’t seem to care?

Use a Plasmatronics Dingo regulator set 24v panels input to charge 12v batteries!

Victron make good regs, too.

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Seems very complicated , ( reading the manual ) Array max power volts are,: 12 v system 16-19 volt.

What happens when over volts ( 20 volt panel ).

spacesailor

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Far better off using 48v battery bank..more efficient

Use grid connect solar panels cheaper than 24v pnes amd more prolific

I use 1 grid connect 200watt panel to a MPPT controller and it charges 10 batteries in all my farm equipment...I dont have flat batteries any more

 

 

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I run off grid 12/24v appliances, no inverters.   Doing a system now at my hangar shed, same as 12/24v that has been running 5 years at my farm shed..

Will use Plasmatronics  (fanless) PL80 for new system.

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Ha, ha ... all those insects in our brave new Class G must be buried under that stratus layer in the old G, way down at ... umm, minus 4000'

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The only way to get AGL is with a radio altimeter and it would be a near blurr at many places where you are at any speed. Do these "people" have any clue at all? Embarrassing..  Nev

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From Air Service's.

 

"

Good afternoon

 

Airservices thanks all aviation industry stakeholders for their continued interest in the initial proposal to lower the base of Class E airspace.

 

We are continuing to work on how best to revise our proposal,  taking into consideration all of the industry feedback we received. We plan to provide the details of the revised proposal to industry shortly. This information package will include detailed airspace design for the revised proposal, surveillance and communication coverage charts, and we will seek further industry feedback on the revised proposal.

 

Regards
Scott

 

SCOTT MITCHELL 
A/CUSTOMER ENGAGEMENT SENIOR ADVISOR"

 

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Looks like they had a rethink will be interesting to see whether they give us a better proposal. Not holding my breath but at least they responded.

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Sorry fellas..we made a real crapola job of that proposal...think we better go back and maybe take out thumbs out our bums and actually think about it before putting foot in mouth again

 

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am going to RAAaus AGM tomorrow just to meet and greet, will be interesting if it comes up. AGMs are usually pure club structure business , IE accepting minutes of last AGM, then  returning officer's job and thats it.....) 

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4 hours ago, Kyle Communications said:

Sorry fellas..we made a real crapola job of that proposal...think we better go back and maybe take out thumbs out our bums and actually think about it before putting foot in mouth again

 

Well, I guess we get another chance for another submission based on what they serve us up for round 2.

Maybe the more knowledgeable among us, can  educate us luddites so we can all be on the right page, next time 🙂

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On 06/02/2021 at 8:30 AM, RFguy said:

My SkyEcho2 in my TEM cell at my lab, measuring  sensitivity , and antenna alignment sensitivity .  I need to write some more Mode S-ES waveform code, since the airspace above me has nothing to listen to (record and play back into my system) . 

 

 

skyecho2.jpg

@RFguy - have you got any results yet from this? I’d be interested to know if you have any idea of the radiation patterns of those PCB antenna. Cheers, Gaz

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The polarization is pretty mixed which is unsurprising for that type of antenna in that housing- always a compromise.  I mean it's finefor the intended job - 10 to 20nm aircraft to aircraft . Worst case on two skyechos as worst orientation is probably 5nm. 

 

I'm going to in the near future put a common connect on it. Down side is that would mean the internal antenna would not be operational even when other unplugged- a one way trip.....but that would be circumvented by screwing in a rubber duck style antenna into the external connector that gets mounted on ithe box.   no probs with that. much better than the internal PCB antenna.

 

 

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Good afternoon

 

Airservices thanks all aviation industry stakeholders for their continued interest in the initial proposal to lower the base of Class E airspace.

 

We are continuing to work on how best to revise our proposal,  taking into consideration all of the industry feedback we received. We plan to provide the details of the revised proposal to industry shortly. This information package will include detailed airspace design for the revised proposal, surveillance and communication coverage charts, and we will seek further industry feedback on the revised proposal.

 

Regards
Scott

 

SCOTT MITCHELL
A/CUSTOMER ENGAGEMENT SENIOR ADVISOR

Direct (02) 6268 4603
Mobile 0432 018 937
Email [email protected]

 

 

 

They don't give up easy.

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Giving in straight away is not what happens. The revised proposal supposedly will detail the specific areas within the J curve that they want to lower Class E but there are numerous issues that they now realise must be considered including getting agreement out of CASA. I`m betting the next round of industry consultation will have just as many responses in the negative and for valid reasons as the first.

Removing the Mode A,C, transponder requirement up to 10,000 feet and encouraging the GA fleet to install subsidised ADSB in/out will get my vote. As already stated surveillance/communication through transponder use is poor at under 5000 feet on the East Coast. Only ADSB aircraft to aircraft data will work IMHO.

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What will happen is that the proposal will get accepted in a modified form.

 

It will then be tweaked slowly over time until the original is applied.

 

This is a solution that is looking for a problem. The current system is working well.

 

If class "E" base is increased to 10,000, and ADSB above 5000, then it would be workable.

 

 

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I see you are starting to give in already, which is as I predicted earlier. The aim of the process was to upset us so much that we breath a huge sigh of relief when they bring Class E down to 3000'

There is no chance that there will be subsidised ADSB. That was used originally to get ADSB up and running, then dropped.

The savings on radar coverage were supposed to make subsidising ADSB viable, but the powers that be decided they liked the saving more than giving any help to pilots.

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I agree with Yenn, this is like a property developer putting in an application to build a 20 storey apartment block and finally settling for 12 storeys, when they really only wanted 10. 

Happens a lot and locals are relieved that it's only 12, not the 20 as initially planned.

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