Roundsounds Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I've just been sent a poor quality pic of what was reported to be a bent JustAircraft SuperSTOL. Any info anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Apparently one of the undercarriage mounting bolts broke and the safety cable prevented a full collapse. I have not seen any photos or anything, a mate has mentioned the above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 video here https://www.facebook.com/nbntelevision scroll down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Apparently one of the undercarriage mounting bolts broke and the safety cable prevented a full collapse. I have not seen any photos or anything, a mate has mentioned the above. The video explains why the gear bolts let go! 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I watched this guy's display recently at Old Station and held my breathe hoping something like this would not happen. To me this is flying too close to the edge & when you are this close to the edge sooner or later you are going to fall off. Even more so in windy conditions. Others may not agree but I think this is taking unnecessary risk. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 His only problem was taking it to the edge ten meters too high. Keep it safe until you are only a meter off the deck and you don't have very far to fall. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planesmaker Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 A bit of pride damaged too I'd say. Glad he is ok. A bit of a twist to the smack down landing. It certainly was short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Commentator: "Folks unfortunately something happened that we didn't expect....." Yeah.....he stalled it doing a slow speed handling display and crashed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundsounds Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yeah.....he stalled it doing a slow speed handling display and crashed. The requirement to maintain not less than 1.3 x Vs is included in CASA Air Display approvals to prevent this type of event occurring. It's a shame, damaged aircraft and doesn't reflect well on RAAus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The video explains why the gear bolts let go! Pilot error. Bloody foolish display. The pilot should be reprimanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Pilot error. Bloody foolish display. The pilot should be reprimanded. What do you suggest? Three months or twelve? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 That has to be one of the dumbest bits of flying I've seen in a while. I'm all for STOL operations and I reckon the SuperSTOL is one of the best of them so far, but do their owners think the plane is so good it'll defy the laws of physics? If people are going to fly STOLs they need to learn what the plane can't do. That was nothing like a controlled 'Smackdown landing', it was more of a 'let's stop in the air and see if it will mush down even if I use ailerons to try and prevent the wing-drop'. And - at an airshow too, that's great for the public perception of recreational flying isn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Steady up a bit on the lynch mob folks. Of course it is flying on the edge, that's why we enjoy it. The whole nature of STOL is higher risk and these things do happen occasionally. As for the 1.3 x VS (not sure that that applies to them all!) 1.3 times 25 (just working on a guesstimated full flap stall figure)is around 32 which doesn't leave a lot of gust tolerance which is the biggest downfall of STOL planes. I wasn't at maitland on Sunday so I don't know how the wind was but I know on Saturday it was nasty. Brett's display on Saturday didn't scare me at all but I was horrified by the para motor display complete with partial collapses at low altitude (I don't know enough about them to really know but it did look scary) 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole nature of STOL is higher risk and these things do happen occasionally. Yeah, but you're supposed to take the prevailing conditions into account, especially when doing STOL. Even harder to explain with a presumably rehearsed routine. I don't agree with dishing out punishment for these things at airshows, but stalling on an approach fits into the "fundamental screw-up" category. If there was any action taken I'd prefer it was in the form of ensuring that others learn good lessons from it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 STOL is not the magic fun plane a lot think it is. Gust factor is magnified with slow. low wing load flight. Aircraft reacts much more than aircraft with more penetration. (Higher wing loads). Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadstick Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Love the plane, it's on my list to build one day. However let's give the guy a break here, sure things could have been better but they could have been a lot worse! I don't think he was deliberately 'hotdogging' and I would think he has flown this same approach many times before but as we all know nothing and no one is infallible and conditions change instantly and without notice. I have met the pilot and owner at Avalon and he seemed very passionate about our sport, I think he deserves our support not criticism he is after all part of the family! I would bet he is beating himself up enough right now. I hope he gets back in the air quickly and keeps on displaying his aircraft for others to see. 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadstick Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Rudder discipline is the big priority when this slow. STOL is not the magic fun plane a lot think it is. Gust factor is magnified with slow. low wing load flight. Aircraft reacts much more than aircraft with more penetration. (Higher wing loads). Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The same aircraft and pilot thrilled the crowd at Old Station in similar crosswind conditions with no problems with several of the same profile type landings. Brett is no rookie either, as a career 20 year AG pilot flying much larger aircraft than the superstol for his daily job. And without doubt the highest time Superstol pilot in Australia ATM. I had several conversations with him there re: the STOL performance and he did say he was enjoying exploring its capabilities. The well conducted displays at Old Station were well flown and very impressive to all who watched, and reminiscent of those flown by Nestor at shows past in the Slepcev Storch. I have not flown a Superstol with its moveable slats, but have flown many similar slow speed approaches in Slevcev Storches with the fixed slats........they have always been very solid, predictable and with no feeling of being on the edge. The ailerons on a Slepcev Storch are amazingly effective right into the stall itself, with no adverse effects on the wing if used. However in any aircraft use of flaps has to be weighed against prevailing wind or gust conditions, with rudder being the best alternative to pick up, or keep a wing flying. Looking forward to seeing Brett demonstrate this aircraft again the future, and I know he is doing a lot of investigation into the unfortunate incident himself, as to the actual cause of the wing drop. Anyone can fly fast...just push the throttle forward....but it takes big balls to fly real slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Crosswinds was mentioned, but at the height he was I would say more of a gust, or a vortex. You might have a margin of 3 knots in some conditions and get away with it. Gusts are not for STOL. If a very experienced pilot can do this, surely the point I'm making is the issue. On the very same runway, in the mid 60's, I was at about 100' climbing out normally in a DH 82 and a wind gust slammed me down on the runway firmly, ending in the full 3 point attitude on the runway, being wings in a vertical bank (uncommanded) at one point on the way down. I was lucky. He wasn't.. When you crash a plane you are the pilot in command and you are responsible for being there, and the margins you build into what you are doing, but you can't see the wind vortex's unless there's dust or grass to show it. When it goes wrong it looks like you are a learner. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I got caught once also in my little bipe ...gave way to a Baron on long final, came back around behind him and must have run into one of his vorteces on flare. One side dropped right out suddenly and wingtip scraped on the runway. Fortunately at only two to three feet above the runway, but not a lot you can do when it happens...minimal damage. The invisible danger....swirling air you can't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Just proves no matter how experienced you are you can get caught out like the rest of us mere mortals, only damage done is some pride and some wallet damage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 It would be interesting to know the stalling characteristics of this plane. Does it have a tendency to drop a wing? Cross wind shouldn't come into it at that height. It was probably still crabbing into wind at that height so the aircraft would still be balanced without crossed controls. Kicking it straight and using into wind aileron in the ground affect phase reduces the risk. Probably the pilot did not do too much wrong, a gust or vortex may have just affected the one wing. Just not enough allowance for error and that can happen to anyone trying to show off the flight envelope of their aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Hmmm it seems at least a certain pilot will not be operating his JUST super STOL at a council owned airfield in the new england district for a while. Probably for the best as last time he was there he mouthed off at the council employed airfield manager when asked to stop flying from beside the runway ... where we KNOW there are large rabbit holes ... and the grass was over 3ft tall ... and it just happens to be the known and declared location of a very large amount of asbestos (the council buried it there) and who refused to even give his name when requested by the council employee. . . made my afternoon calming the council employee down and explain that not all ultralight pilots are like that. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I wonder what the damage bill will be? new engine, new prop, straighten wing and fuselage. won't be cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The aircraft involved has undesirable stall characteristics. It is entirely obvious that: 1) the rudder runs out of authority before the elevator - allowing an uncontrollable wing drop; and 2) the ailerons stall before the main wing. PROPER v.g installation could prevent the latter case, but the former is a basic feature of design. Just because the damn thing has huge wheels and a low stall speed does NOT mean it is a wonderful aircraft. The PIC on this occasion demonstrated that bovine excrement does not always baffle brains - when the cards are on the table, the laws of physics apply. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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