turboplanner Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, aro said: One motivation might be to start bringing in cheaper overseas workers again. That needs some microscopic examination from the time those people leave their homeland, the way they travel, the way they enter, the way they live, where they live, when they transition from tenporary visas and become "Australians" how much they are pulling off the Australian pensions in the homeland, and then the emeployer structure, what that does to the business of competitors, to industries, to productivity (it's a bit rich when a truck driver can't find South Australia, and probably another fifty things I've missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGM Posted August 30, 2021 Author Share Posted August 30, 2021 BTW - on the topic of flying, I made some polite enquiries today... it seems some Victorian aviators may be operating under some older guidance (eg https://mfs.com.au/staying-safe-covid-19 - example only, this company is not presently flying although others are). Perhaps this explains the ~10 or so training flights I could see today. Even though I am vacinated and would be of no risk to anyone with a solo flight, perhaps it's the optics of if that prevent me. Hang in there everyone! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Set up some Covid specific field hospitals and purpose built quarantine facilities and they will come, for the next 5 years 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 This applies mainly to Part 142 training organisations. https://aopa.com.au/aopa-australia-seeks-clarification-on-covid19-exemption-for-part142-flight-training-providers/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Garfly said: I'm all for compliance with the science (and with the ones saddled with setting the rules) but to me, such strict interpretations of "proper quarantine" just give ammunition to those who think it's all ridiculous and would pressure the pollies to give it away altogether. Let's say you live in regional NSW near where your aircraft's kept and you go up alone to fly circuits to keep your skills sharp; how is that "exporting our germs" when driving into town to stock up at Woolies - rule wise - isn't, so much? Proper quarantine, would have had a high probability of resolving this outbreak within 10 days -2 weeks - minimal disruption to society & the econamy (& your flying). What is NSW in now , the twelfth weeks of confusion? Virus spread Nationally (except WA & Tasmania?) - something to be proud of?? We elect/pay the polies to make the hard decision, not be frightened of a few antivaxxers' , conspiracy theorists - why would you vote for the wishy washy crap we have been served. Fake quarantine (what we have been practising) has resulted in massive economic & social cost. You choose the soft approach you gets the disastrous result. If the jobs worth doing, do it properly the first time. One of the biggest problems with the Scomo/Gladys approach, is their utter failure to: Implement swift & appropriate quarantine To communicate effectively, even the fake quarantine rules, so that everyone knows, it is their individual responsibility to maintain quarantine. The attitude that we can all decide our individual circumstance (Gladys tried that with Bondi & failed) is not & never will be, compatible with a quarantine situation. You have to eat, your life depends on it - ideally you would have your food delivered minimising your exposure, the potential to become infected or infect others,. Your life does not depend on you flying or making pathetic excuses to service your aircraft or a host of other quarantine braking activities Edited August 30, 2021 by skippydiesel 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Your life may not, but your mental health will……look to related suicide figures, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Suicide caused by lockdowns is another persistent myth. They do collect these figures. The suicide rate went down during lockdown. Also youth death rates went down overall, likely because young people were stopped from doing the stupid things that tend to get them killed. Not that that's a justification for lockdowns, but if you want to use death rates to make a point it is relevant.... The big suicide problem has been doctors and nurses in hard hit countries. They have PTSD and massive mental health problems from the sheer number of patients that unavoidably (or now, with vaccines, avoidably!) die under their care. It looks like NSW is going down that path. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Need to include figures of suicide related to covid restrictions that have caused family breakups, bankruptcies, home foreclosures, loss of jobs etc. Those figures will never be available, the States and Federal Govt won’t go there……. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 The numbers are published. The Coroner releases them, not the government. https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/no-increase-in-vic-suicides-in-2021-data-c-3707259 https://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-10/Coroners Court Suicide Data Report - Report 2 - 05102020.pdf https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/suicides-in-victoria-dip-despite-fears-pandemic-would-drive-increase-20210118-p56uwp.html https://medicalrepublic.com.au/suicides-didnt-rise-last-year-even-during-lockdown/39262 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 But we will never know what percentage of these suicides had any connection to Covid, however small. It comes back to what is classified as Covid related suicide, part of marriage breakdown due to Covid, bankruptcy’s, employment loss, lockdown mental health? How far do you go to arrive at the figures? An exact count would never be known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying fewer suicides is bad, because some may be COVID related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just wanting to know the actual numbers given the parameters I stated, somehow I don’t think there would be a breakdown of the statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, jackc said: Your life may not, but your mental health will……look to related suicide figures, too. So you would risk your life to be a little less anxious, today & "down the tack". In other times, I would to say "your choice" and fight for your right to risk your own life. Not today or the foreseeable future, when your choice might mean my life or a member of my family, friends, community. That's what a pandemic does - it limits the freedom to choose, move about without precautions, travel, have the illusion of free will. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Life itself has elements of risk, nothing is guaranteed. Me being a realist accept the risks but try to minimise them as much as possible. However being adventurous probably increases those risks, its a sort of balancing act. But I consider myself lucky, a good friend passed recently and I for some reason thought I better delete him from my phone contacts. To my horror, after going through my phone realised 10 of my contacts had passed over recent years 😞 That made me realise I am still fortunate to be on this earth. Then I thought of the unfinished business I have in this life. I want to fit a BRS to my aircraft, people have said don’t need them, I said I don’t every want to need the use of one, but it’s there IF I need it. In my opinion all aircraft should have them…….but that’s MY opinion only. A person whom I had a tense discussion over fitting one to a second hand aircraft 2 years ago is now dead, I won’t go into details but his aircraft crashed and it was fatal. Being alive is risky…….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 hours ago, jackc said: Life itself has elements of risk, nothing is guaranteed. Me being a realist accept the risks but try to minimise them as much as possible. However being adventurous probably increases those risks, its a sort of balancing act. But I consider myself lucky, a good friend passed recently and I for some reason thought I better delete him from my phone contacts. To my horror, after going through my phone realised 10 of my contacts had passed over recent years 😞 That made me realise I am still fortunate to be on this earth. Then I thought of the unfinished business I have in this life. I want to fit a BRS to my aircraft, people have said don’t need them, I said I don’t every want to need the use of one, but it’s there IF I need it. In my opinion all aircraft should have them…….but that’s MY opinion only. A person whom I had a tense discussion over fitting one to a second hand aircraft 2 years ago is now dead, I won’t go into details but his aircraft crashed and it was fatal. Being alive is risky…….. That's not a valid argument for not being vaccinated; it's denial. The NSW spread, which could turn into a disaster was achieved by denial, and ignorance of the way the Delta strain spread. There's no way to see it travelling to your State let alone your district. What about your wife; what chance is she being given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 In your opinion it’s a denial and that’s OK with me, don't try the guilt trip on my wife……she agrees with me:-) We may end up getting vaccinated in the long run. I get updates every week from my medical journal, I will pick the vaccine we want, waiting for more info on Moderna. Because of our circumstances, I don’t see an urgent need at this stage. IF there is a major outbreak in our area, then I may need to reconsider. Understand this, I am not a sheep and never have been…….they can all follow each other. In this life I have always made my own decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, jackc said: ...IF there is a major outbreak in our area, then I may need to reconsider... ...then it will be too late. Would you wait until a bushfire is roaring towards your house before climbing a ladder to clean out the gutters? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 This was posted by NSW Police on Facebook yesterday. If you can do it in a recreational boat you can do it in a recreational aircraft is the way I see it. Obviously depends on an individual's circumstances. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Indications from nurses; in the event of major pressure on ICU facilities: “No vaccination, then no ventilation.”. And those words are from ICU involved nurses, they aren’t going to waste time and resources on poor risks. This is exactly the same as the existing (unwritten) policy regarding smokers. Some of you might want to rethink your vaccination strategy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, walrus said: Indications from nurses; in the event of major pressure on ICU facilities: “No vaccination, then no ventilation.”. Seems unlikely to happen because a) health care workers don't work like that and b) vaccinated people are much less likely to require ventilation. They are not going to leave ventilators unused while unvaccinated people die, just in case someone who has been vaccinated needs one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 33 minutes ago, Thruster88 said: This was posted by NSW Police on Facebook yesterday. If you can do it in a recreational boat you can do it in a recreational aircraft is the way I see it. Obviously depends on an individual's circumstances. Yeah, so for the really risk averse (for self and others) it seems some boating/flying activity is allowed in NSW. And for the real risk-takers, there's always the jolly throng at the supermarket. (There ya go! ... up is down; just as flight instructors warn. ;- ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) jackC And Please, take that jab, if & when it,s available. As l posted ealier " one person booked in for pfizer, " had to cancel as he caught covic19. My daughter is the booking ' front desk ' contact at the medical centre. Thats how l know it,s not bull crap. I don,t want Any of my Friendly forum members on the Deceased list, l ' need ' all of you !. spacesailor Edited August 31, 2021 by spacesailor Spelling 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Charges dropped against NSW trio who flew to Coober Pedy amid COVID-19 border restrictions https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-31/nsw-trio-who-flew-to-sa-amid-covid-19-ban-have-charges-dropped/100421248 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Typical secret squirrel stuff. See that Qld has broken its own ruling say no more border crossings as quarantine facilities have no more room, but yet some sporting teams have flown in and the rules bent to accommodate them. In Qld case, it’s all about the money 😞. People wonder why I have little respect for the law….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 But from what I've heard, the Law speaks very highly of you, Jack. ;- ) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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