Flying during Lockdown

[Country Flyer]

23 hours ago, Garfly said:

 

I'm all for compliance with the science (and with the ones saddled with setting the rules) but to me, such strict interpretations of "proper quarantine"  just give ammunition to those who think it's all ridiculous and would pressure the pollies to give it away altogether.

 

Let's say you live in regional NSW near where your aircraft's kept and you go up alone to fly circuits to keep your skills sharp; how is that "exporting our germs" when driving into town to stock up at Woolies - rule wise - isn't, so much? 

 

 

I do that every week(NSW)... fly circuits and gets the plane out and about... health and safety... my mental health/safety and the safety of the aircraft that its being operated and engine run...

[Ironpot]

26 minutes ago, jackc said:

Typical secret squirrel stuff. See that Qld has broken its own ruling say no more border crossings as quarantine facilities have no more room, but yet some sporting teams have flown in and the rules bent to accommodate them. In Qld case, it’s all about the money 😞. People wonder why I have little respect for the law…..

You're right to highlight this - It's left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.  Especially as it comes on the back of the West Wellcamp development. She's swiftly eroding a lot of support.  

[jackc]

13 minutes ago, Garfly said:

But from what I've heard, the Law speaks very highly of you, Jack.   ;- )

Years ago the AFP spooks turned up at my house, I was part of a court case involving a terrorism  investigation.

They rolled up in a white rental Corolla, knocked on my door and announced themselves Special Agents Blah and Blee and flashed their badges to which I said

’What are you a bunch of whimps? WHERE is your black helicopter?

Budget restrictions?   They had a good laugh, 7 hours later they left.

Jokes like ‘Can you get me a crate of Sky Rockets?’ etc etc.

They took it all OK 🙂 

[skippydiesel]

On 30/08/2021 at 2:39 PM, KRviator said:

So what if we have? The whole "Zero Covid" mentality is a crock of shit. It's unsustainable, uneconomical and unethical. The goal was to Flatten the curve. We did that. We tolerated lockdowns to do that. No one agreed to Zero-Covid, and the whole "Let's blame NSW for our states cases" is disingenious and only highlights their own unrealistic expectations compared to Covid reality. Look at any other highly vaccinated jurisdiction in the world. Any other jurisdiction...And look at their case numbers then convert them to a percentage of our population and see what you get - I'll give you a hint, it ain't Zero! Or even close to it...

 

I went flying last week and make no apologies for it. I have an exemption from Qld to fly up there to check out a plane for sale, and that's fine so long as I don't leave the airport, then fly direct back to NSW.

True we started with the "Flatten The Curve" concept because we were looking at the overseas situation (where CV rapidly got away from the slow moving authorities) . We found through luck & experience, because we are an island  and can successfully close our boarders, Zero Community Spread was/is achievable.

 

You would have us not take advantage of our island state AND small population.

 

We should certainly learn from the overseas CV situation BUT not slavishly follow their example, ignoring our unique situation.

 

We can & should do it better - we will have less economic/human/social cost in the long run.

[facthunter]

Just because you end up with  the majority doesn't make you a sheep. I reckon I've gone into this far more than most. There's a whole lot of horse$#1t out there about all  of this from people with no  desire to deal with the truth. It's splitting up  long term relationships and more than that. Kelly and Clive have tons of the chloroquin to sell. I'd like to know what they treated Trump with or IF he ever had the virus. Over my flying career I had to keep "ready" to go to many countries so I always had to have a valid passport and all the required vaccinations up to date. it was part of the job and you didn't question it, I was also given chloroquin every time I  went to PNG. I drive on the left side of the road too when I'm here and am relatively careful about the speed limits because money doesn't come easy and your Insurance is cheaper. . We won't talk about when I was younger, though. Nev

[KRviator]

22 hours ago, jackc said:

Need to include figures of suicide related to covid restrictions that have caused family breakups, bankruptcies, home foreclosures, loss of jobs etc.

Those figures will never be available, the States and Federal Govt won’t go there…….

That's the kicker right there, innit?

At the latest Census I am officially classed as Unemployed. I'm am not. I have a job, I just can't get to it. I was off work 11 months last year, will probably eclipse that this year/round with that arsehole in WA pushing his Covid Zero mantra because he's stuffed the healthcare system there, and personally, will now probably lose well over $200,000 overall in lost leave, wages, superannuation, etc. And I am just one person.

 

 

16 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

True we started with the "Flatten The Curve" concept because we were looking at the overseas situation (where CV rapidly got away from the slow moving authorities) . We found through luck & experience, because we are an island  and can successfully close our boarders, Zero Community Spread was/is achievable.

 

You would have us not take advantage of our island state AND small population.

 

We should certainly learn from the overseas CV situation BUT not slavishly follow their example, ignoring our unique situation.

 

We can & should do it better - we will have less economic/human/social cost in the long run.

Except it is not achievable - we have demonstrated that time and time again. It gets out from HQ, it gets out from the staff driving the aircrew to the hotel, it gets out from the HQ security guard snogging one of the inmates. It doesn't matter how it gets out, only the fact that it does!

And each time it gets out, states like QLD and WA shut their domestic border's throwing the country into disarray. Granted closing the international border was a smart move, however look what closing the domestic border's have done to families, weddings, funerals, everything with the exception of the NRL has been screwed over by it, and they simply wave a wad of cash under the nose of an unelected public servant and she waves them through into the state with open arms.

As above, I'm closing in on $200K in lost dollars due to the WA border being closed - and there are many colleagues in a similar boat. Either that, or they have not seen their families for a year or more because they are being held hostage by WA, with WAPOL saying "If you leave, you won't get a G2G pass approved to come back..."

Yes, take advantage of our nation's island status. But we are a bloody nation we are not 7 different countries, though you wouldn't know that now. It's even demonstrated in the lockdown measures. Mexican's cannot fly. I can in NSW. I can even fly to QLD so long as I don't leave the airport....

[aro]

11 minutes ago, KRviator said:

Except it is not achievable - we have demonstrated that time and time again. It gets out from HQ, it gets out from the staff driving the aircrew to the hotel, it gets out from the HQ security guard snogging one of the inmates. It doesn't matter how it gets out, only the fact that it does!

And each time it gets out, states like QLD and WA shut their domestic border's throwing the country into disarray.

 

QLD and WA are shutting their borders because it keeps their economy going. People don't appreciate how normal things have been in Australia compared to other countries that haven't controlled COVID as well. Shutting borders has allowed hospitality, sports, mining, retail, manufacturing, even tourism within the states to continue relatively normally.

 

All the people complaining about shutdowns in Vic and NSW are about to get a reality check when they discover how much worse things are with the virus circulating. Businesses shut down with no end in sight, instead of for a few weeks at a time. I am in Vic, and now the virus seems to have gotten away I expect we will be under restrictions for 3-4 months.

 

We don't realize how fortunate we have been. Last year, I was wondering how many friends and family would end up dying from this disease. So far (touch wood) it is no-one. Talk to people with friends and family overseas to get a picture of what it has been like there. I know someone in New York who through their friends and acquaintances knows of 20 people who died.

 

The dead don't complain, and the thousands of people whose lives have been saved rarely know who they are, so they don't appreciate it either. But it could be you or any member of your family.

 

If you want to blame someone for the current problems, blame the federal government who were offered 40 million doses of Pfizer for delivery last January, but rejected it as too expensive. Things would be very different if we had higher levels of vaccination.

[turboplanner]

6 minutes ago, KRviator said:

At the latest Census I am officially classed as Unemployed. I'm am not. I have a job, I just can't get to it. I was off work 11 months last year, will probably eclipse that this year/round with that arsehole in WA pushing his Covid Zero mantra because he's stuffed the healthcare system there, and personally, will now probably lose well over $200,000 overall in lost leave, wages, superannuation, etc. And I am just one person.

 

You think you're alone in that?

We're in a  Pandemic; Come up with an alternative that doesn't involve tens of thousands of deaths.

 

 

6 minutes ago, KRviator said:

Except it is not achievable - we have demonstrated that time and time again. It gets out from HQ, it gets out from the staff driving the aircrew to the hotel, it gets out from the HQ security guard snogging one of the inmates. It doesn't matter how it gets out, only the fact that it does!

Come up with an alternative.

 

6 minutes ago, KRviator said:

And each time it gets out, states like QLD and WA shut their domestic border's throwing the country into disarray. Granted closing the international border was a smart move.

What's the difference; When you look at the top five countries in the world, all scoring zero deaths to date, they isolated. If you isolate the Covid-19 can't spread.

If you isolate family members can't travel.

6 minutes ago, KRviator said:

Yes, take advantage of our nation's island status. But we are a bloody nation we are not 7 different countries.

We're not a Nation, we're a Commonwealth of, effectively, six Nations (We call them States but they all have their own laws and all have their appointed Heads of State) and two Territories.

You can't be half pregnant; if all States and Territories are following a policy of Separation, which results in the minimum numbers of family members lost, it follows that the movement of people has to be stopped.  The people recruited by the Media each day to tell a story about their plight, have never added at the end of their story "Of course, if I and people like me were all allowed to cross the border Covid would be spread across the border too, and kill your family members who are also suffering, but saving their families lives.

[Flightrite]

The Victorian lunatic/s keep on rolling on whilst their income also keeps rolling on, their BS & tyranny has destroyed the hopes & dreams of many!

The real cost of their criminal activities won't be known for a long time as people crumble under their dictatorship! Lockdowns don't work they just divide the nation & turn people against each other!

As for flying during lockdown? Did it last time during the extended jail term & will again this term!

Edited September 1, 2021 by Flightrite

[skippydiesel]

Not one for conspiracy theories - I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that the opposition to the Zero Community Transmission of CV19 is likely to be a plot.

 

If its not, why has NSW (with Scomo support) been setting us (all of Australia) up for failure in containing the virus ??

 

Just think about this for a moment:

 

We were one of the few nations on Earth that successful achieved Zero Community Transmission EVEN WHEN WE WERE ONLT TRYING FOR  "FLATTEN THE CURVE" (the origination conservative philosophy).

 

Oh you say! that was with the Alpha (less transmittable strain). True! however we were completely naive in our response to that variant and with much bumbling/stumbling still managed to get to 0 Community Transmission.

 

Then we had the single infected person (the Limo Driver/Delta,an incident in itself that brings into question Gov responsibility) What do we do? Basically took a week or two off, made a few cosmetic sort of ho hum response, if you like you can stay at home & wear a mask, that is if its not too much trouble - DESTINED FOR FAILURE!!!

 

Where are we now ? - NSW has pretty much put all of Australia at risk due to its continued (12 weeks ?) inept management of the outbreak. I used to think it was just incompetence in our leadership. Not so sure now.

 

Who will benefit from letting the virus rip and promoting vaccination over quarantined ??

 

"Follow the money" I say.

 

I would speculate, those large industries who would still be impacted by a CV19 free Australia (national boarders locked or restricted) - tourism ?  education ?. international sport (a bigy)? pharmaceutical  companies ?....... ??????

 

I believe we were (past tense) more than capable of bringing Delta to Zero Community Transmission - we just didn't try hard/fast/appropriately enough.

 

The naysayers will shout IMPOSSIBLE! there will always be outbreak's . True ! - no quarantine system is 100% full proof/perfect - so you implement fast response quarantine personnel & systems (just like a bush fire/train wreck/whatever) that automatically deploy  to contain the future Limo Driver & his close contacts, within a significant geographic "buffer zone". The  10-14 days (could be as few as 3 days) lockdown, impacted a relatively small geographic area/ population for a short time with minimal economic/social distress.

 

One positive in this debacle: We were always going to need to try for herd immunity and the failures of Delta outbreak control have certainly galvanised the population to do the right (jab) thing.

 

However it is clear now , that the jab alone, will not free us;

 

From Delta or future strains

Lockdowns

Booster shots and possibly new vaccines to address a changing virus (big big $$$ for the pharmaceutical Co)

Increased illness, death rate, long term disability - all of which will have a significant social & economic impact

 

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, Flightrite said:

The Victorian lunatic/s keep on rolling on whilst their income also keeps rolling on, their BS & tyranny has destroyed the hopes & dreams of many!

The real cost of their criminal activities won't be known for a long time as people crumble under their dictatorship! Lockdowns don't work they just divide the nation & turn people against each other!

As for flying during lockdown? Did it last time during the extended jail term & will again this term!

So Flightright - I see you gave me a Caution notice. Fair enough. You got a better explanation for how CV19 was allowed to get away from Sydney and then be exported to most States and into the NSW hinterland.

[BirdDog]

For what it’s worth I live within 5kms of my AD and i have been flying at every opportunity. Sometimes 2 and 3 times a week.  
 

Mental health is vital. Look after yourselves lads.  We are still a VERY long way from being anywhere near normality.  If ever. Too many agendas at play. 

[spacesailor]

 How is the epidemic transmitted.

By road !

  Ship driver i, to Sydney NO quarantine , Limo driver,   truck driver, 

And were still bring plane loads in.

L strain from Africa !

M strain from south America.

In the movies they ended up shooting the infected. It kills that strain & all viruses.

Gloomy spacesailor

 

 

[skippydiesel]

15 hours ago, BirdDog said:

For what it’s worth I live within 5kms of my AD and i have been flying at every opportunity. Sometimes 2 and 3 times a week.  
 

Mental health is vital. Look after yourselves lads.  We are still a VERY long way from being anywhere near normality.  If ever. Too many agendas at play. 

Well done - You and all the other quarantine breakers, are the reason why the virus has/is spreading.

 

Of course your metal health is important - if the quarantine/Lockdown had been swiftly/fully implemented. the few days-3weeks to get it under control, would not have had a significant impact on your metal wellbeing.

 

You may thank Pandemic Gladys for the negative impact on your metal health.

[Garfly]

25 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Well done - You and all the other quarantine breakers, are the reason why the virus has/is spreading.

 

 

Okay, please explain which NSW quarantine regulation Bird Dog has broken.

Also, please explain how, ipso facto, that activity is more likely to spread the virus than, say, driving to the hardware superstore to buy stuff.

Also, why do you endorse Flighty's subversion of the quarantine system (below) but attack others actually staying within guidelines?

 

 

 

A post of mine on the other Covid thread:

 

Posted Friday at 05:38 PM (edited)

 

Skippy, I'm confused, you endorse Flighty's idea of subverting the log-in system with unreadable handwriting.  Yet nobody here has been more full-on about respect for government lockdown conditions, than you. (You fairly blew a gasket at the "contempt" of fellow aviators flying too high, with no guy in the sky as an idea of something to do. ;- )

 

 

 

[BirdDog]

1 hour ago, skippydiesel said:

Well done - You and all the other quarantine breakers, are the reason why the virus has/is spreading.

 

Of course your metal health is important - if the quarantine/Lockdown had been swiftly/fully implemented. the few days-3weeks to get it under control, would not have had a significant impact on your metal wellbeing.

 

You may thank Pandemic Gladys for the negative impact on your metal health.

LOL. You are a laugh a minute. 
 

along with with what Garfly has said I have another question. 
 

Can you give one example of a country that has controlled the virus  - at all, let alone with lockdowns.  It’s surely a comedy routine to think any measure is going to get rid of it.  It is going to be with us forever, and so we better get used to living with it. 
 

And for what it’s worth, not that I need to explain myself to you, I go from my house to my hangar and come into less contact with people than when I go do my food shopping. 
 

Alarmists like yourself do nothing to aid the cause. Let’s get a real grip on what we are in middle of, and do the best we can to remain human, because right now it appears humanity is out the window, and I see nothing but division and hatred amongst us all. God help us. 

 

[skippydiesel]

45 minutes ago, Garfly said:

Okay, please explain which NSW quarantine regulation Bird Dog has broken.

Also, please explain how, ipso facto, that activity is more likely to spread the virus than, say, driving to the hardware superstore to buy stuff.

Also, why do you endorse Flighty's subversion of the quarantine system (below) but attack others actually staying within guidelines?

 

 

 

A post of mine on the other Covid thread:

 

 

Posted Friday at 05:38 PM (edited)

 

Skippy, I'm confused, you endorse Flighty's idea of subverting the log-in system with unreadable handwriting.  Yet nobody here has been more full-on about respect for government lockdown conditions, than you. (You fairly blew a gasket at the "contempt" of fellow aviators flying too high, with no guy in the sky as an idea of something to do. ;- )

 

 

 

My consistent point has been - the (NSW) Lockdown/Quarantine has been a debacle from the start. I am not suggesting you/BD.anyone else is/ are breaking any NSW Gov rules by breaking one of, if not the main, cardinal rule of quarantine, no movement, you have assisted in the failure of the system.

 

Thank you for making my point; In a properly implemented quarantined, you would not be slipping down to the hardware store, grog shop, barber or any of the other non essential trips - you would remain at home for the few days - 3 weeks the outbreaks was active for.

 

For most people subjected to a proper (fast/comprehensive)  quarantine response, there is every change of being over within a few days - the adjective is nil community transfer. As soon as you identify & contain (quarantine) the infected people, so that they can not transmit to others, the community quarantine can be lifted. Simples!

 

I do not respect the NSW Gov Lockdown at all, for it is an almost complete fake , not even coming close to a true quarantine response . However I do my best to isolate with my family, avoid travel and interaction with others as much as is practical and am about to get my second jab. As an individual there is little more that I can do.

 

Who ever suggested subversion of the "log-in" system - I log in wherever I go (I rarely go anywhere during lockdown) - I just happen to use the pen/paper usually provided.

[skippydiesel]

34 minutes ago, BirdDog said:

LOL. You are a laugh a minute. 
 

along with with what Garfly has said I have another question. 
 

Can you give one example of a country that has controlled the virus  - at all, let alone with lockdowns.  It’s surely a comedy routine to think any measure is going to get rid of it.  It is going to be with us forever, and so we better get used to living with it. 
 

And for what it’s worth, not that I need to explain myself to you, I go from my house to my hangar and come into less contact with people than when I go do my food shopping. 
 

Alarmists like yourself do nothing to aid the cause. Let’s get a real grip on what we are in middle of, and do the best we can to remain human, because right now it appears humanity is out the window, and I see nothing but division and hatred amongst us all. God help us. 

 

Thanks BD - Many of the higher econamy, island states, have managed at least once, to achieve Zero  Community Transmission.

 

I have never suggested that Australia can remain CV free indefinitely, or even that this is practical objective. All I have suggested is that Zero Community Transmission is achievable & desirable, in the short term, while we develop a suitable plan (herd immunity being a significant part) and systems for on going management/minimisation of CV impact on society and the econamy.

 

As for your flying activities & your shopping (why not get delivered/click & collect?) - sure you as an individual have probably acted responsibly, as far as inter person contact is concerned. BUT successful  quarantine, does not allow for individual determination/interpretation/action, its an all in/out situation (no grey area). You have subverted the concept, even if you have acted within the wholly inexplicable NSW Gov rules.

 

Alarmist?? - I have some previous exposure to quarantine environments, nasty disseises - I can tell you, what Gladys has been doing, is nothing like what I understand a successful quarantine would require - not even close. This is not alarmist it is frustration with the political subversion of a well understood , tried & true concept,  that has been around for hundreds of years. 

 

My position is simple ; You (we) either do quarantine as it should be done or forget it. Where there is the threat of highly infectious disease, there is no such thing as success partial quarantine.

[jackc]

You know, IF everyone on this forum got to personally  meet each other at a forum meeting, I am damn sure that the hostility would not be the same at that meeting?

Primarily, we are human beings with a big interest in Aviation.

Someone here takes a short fly in his plane, do a few orbits and land…..and he gets piled on with a barrage of surface to air missiles. 

So IF we all stop playing Covid Policeman…….that would be a good thing 🙂

[Thruster88]

I will continue to fly within the rules. It doesn't place anyone in any danger. The local flying school has resumed limited operations, they are all vaccinated and I'm guessing the customers have to be vaccinated as well.

[Garfly]

Well we can all agree on one thing ... no, wait

 

[skippydiesel]

 

40 minutes ago, jackc said:

You know, IF everyone on this forum got to personally  meet each other at a forum meeting, I am damn sure that the hostility would not be the same at that meeting?

Primarily, we are human beings with a big interest in Aviation.

Someone here takes a short fly in his plane, do a few orbits and land…..and he gets piled on with a barrage of surface to air missiles. 

So IF we all stop playing Covid Policeman…….that would be a good thing 🙂

What hostility? - its called debating.

 

Hopefully we are all being polite, taking a position and strongly arguing our point. How boring would be the World without difference.

[skippydiesel]

23 minutes ago, Thruster88 said:

I will continue to fly within the rules. It doesn't place anyone in any danger. The local flying school has resumed limited operations, they are all vaccinated and I'm guessing the customers have to be vaccinated as well.

Are you addressing any of the points I have tried to raise?

[Garfly]

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

You have subverted the concept, even if you have acted within the wholly inexplicable NSW Gov rules.

Flying solo is not subversion.

THIS (for the third time) is subversion. 

 

 

[Thruster88]

11 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Are you addressing any of the points I have tried to raise?

No, you are just another politician in respect to the covid debate. When it is over I would still like to meet you so no hard feelings. I am taking care to minimize contact with others but life goes on. Food crops need the be looked after. We can't all be hermits.