geoffreywh Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 You gotta be kidding? That's Bullsh^t ......My wife's Lexus GS300 has one of the best straight sixes ever made. Can be made to rev it's tits off @ about 1000hp. (turbo-ed of course) . The six from Nissan was in the beasties that blew everyone into the weeds at Mount Panorama. Didn't see any "long and twisty " cranks breaking then ( except in the Holdens and Fords) ....Oh excuse me, I forgot the Honda CB 1000 and the Kwaka Z1300 (120hp) both with 8500 or so rev limits ...The Benelli six reved higher. No cranks breaking there either.... Design it properly in the first place. A 3 cyl (120 degree crank ) is like a turbine...Get your facts straight....please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 You gotta be kidding? That's Bullsh^t ......My wife's Lexus GS300 has one of the best straight sixes ever made. Can be made to rev it's tits off @ about 1000hp. (turbo-ed of course) . The six from Nissan was in the beasties that blew everyone into the weeds at Mount Panorama. Didn't see any "long and twisty " cranks breaking then ( except in the Holdens and Fords) ....Oh excuse me, I forgot the Honda CB 1000 and the Kwaka Z1300 (120hp) both with 8500 or so rev limits ...The Benelli six reved higher. No cranks breaking there either.... Design it properly in the first place. A 3 cyl (120 degree crank ) is like a turbine...Get your facts straight....please Remember in the early 1970s when the straight-six 3.3 litre (202 cubic inch) Holden engines fitted to the Torana GTR-XU1 s beat the big V8 GTHO Fords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 120 degree three cyl crank is fine for stiffness all other things being equal. Length and lack of stiffness is the bad guy in crank troubles especially if heavily counterweighted. Many aero engines have moving (dynamic).weights to dampen harmonics and also many have prohibited RPM(s) (Just don't use) in the operating manual. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Remember in the early 1970s when the straight-six 3.3 litre (202 cubic inch) Holden engines fitted to the Torana GTR-XU1 s beat the big V8 GTHO Fords? Remember ! I was there, must be getting old ! was a lot of fun and excitement back then ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 You gotta be kidding? That's Bullsh^t ......My wife's Lexus GS300 has one of the best straight sixes ever made. Can be made to rev it's tits off @ about 1000hp. (turbo-ed of course) . The six from Nissan was in the beasties that blew everyone into the weeds at Mount Panorama. Didn't see any "long and twisty " cranks breaking then ( except in the Holdens and Fords) ....Oh excuse me, I forgot the Honda CB 1000 and the Kwaka Z1300 (120hp) both with 8500 or so rev limits ...The Benelli six reved higher. No cranks breaking there either.... Design it properly in the first place. A 3 cyl (120 degree crank ) is like a turbine...Get your facts straight....please True about the high RPM sixes, but they were all very short stroke low CC engines. You can forget about reving longer stroke high CC sixes. BMW make a beautifully balanced high performance 6, but again it is an over square engine and only around 3000 CC. The beauty of sixes traditionally in the conventional auto range was that you didn't need to rev them, the original 250 cu" Falcon six developed max torgue at 1200 RPM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic36 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Remember in the early 1970s when the straight-six 3.3 litre (202 cubic inch) Holden engines fitted to the Torana GTR-XU1 s beat the big V8 GTHO Fords? I think they were 186's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I think they were 186's No. The '69-72 torana had the 186, the '72 GTR had the 202 and no option for the 186 Love the old 202 - easy engine to learn mechanics on in the late 70's ... and watch my numb nut brother break the head studs off by 'undoing' them the wrong way :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmanr Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 In the early 80s BMW produced a 2 litre six "European Pack". Silky smooth and revved like tomorrow. Don't think they flexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 : Perhaps we will get an update on the BEX-2015 engine soon? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Straight 6's have always been nice engines. All the Holdens upto the early eighties where the emission regs took hold of the dated design, were pretty good engines. Then the Nissan 3 litre 6cyl was a great match for the Commodores. Can't say I liked the move to the V6. GM pushing their agenda perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 IIRC the commodore came out with the nissan 6 once but it didn't go down well with the "buy aussie" crowd who wanted a chevy engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 IIRC the commodore came out with the nissan 6 once but it didn't go down well with the "buy aussie" crowd who wanted a chevy engine My parents owned the VL Commodore for about ten years. The Nissan engine was very smooth, quiet, economical and reliable. I owned the earlier VH Commodore with the Australian straight six 3.3 litre "blue motor. Compared with the Nissan's straight six in the VL, my engine seemed to be gasping (as a result of all the bolt-on anti-pollution devices) and nowhere near as smooth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Goodness, This HAS to be the site for mis-information and false rumour... I said that well designed 6's don't have crank problems, and I just read "Yeah, but they are all very short strokes, very low cc's." so 1300 is very low? About the same as a Rotax? and whilst on my soap box. The Kawasaki 6 WAS NOT a short stroke engine. In actual fact it was/is a long stroke motor, so were many other 6's mentioned.... Just keep the conjecture to a minimum and rely on facts PLEASE. and anyway what's the stoke /bore ratio got to do with anything? We are talking about geared motors are we not?......Who in their right mind ( Except Bec s) would market a direct drive engine nowadays?.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 PLEASE. and anyway what's the stoke /bore ratio got to do with anything? We are talking about geared motors are we not?......Who in their right mind ( Except Becs) would market a direct drive engine nowadays?.... Lycoming, Continental, D-motor, UL power, Jabiru, CAE... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Who in their right mind (Except Bec's) would market a direct drive engine nowadays?.... At least two from three different continents that I can recall. How about the Australian Camit, The American Continental and Lycoming and the European UL Power and the D Motor? Don't forget, there is also our very own Down Under Jabiru which is the underlying concept for the Camit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Whilst staying off topic, A holden six- a good motor? You all have short memories. The greatest cause of racing accidents was the holden six- it would punch a leg outta bed- ie bust a rod through the case very often, spewing oil all over the track and cause accidents. Heaps of club racers have very bad stories to tell. I drove lots of them back in the day and they wore out quickly and the junk rods broke all the time- not racing just on road. Bm Higginbottom made a fortune reconditioning these motors. If you got 100,ooo kms out of one, it was worn out. The BMW sixes like the M30 six 2.8 litre to 3.5 litre are fantastic, smooth, powerful and very strong. Slight mods to the block and a twin cam head made it a M5 motor. Very high quality engineering. I spat my coffee convulsing when I saw Holden six and good in the same sentence. There are two makers who have been considered to make the best six in the world. BMW with its M30, M5 and M3 sixes Alfa Romeo with the 2.5-3.2 litre V6 Both of these engine families are still used in Europe, US and even Australia for racing. Bar a formula 1 type motor they are still the guns, even in open wheelers. The only peeps who use holden etc are forced to by the rules. For hill climbs the Alfa is king. A friend builds BMW engines for club and road racing so I know a bit about them. Another is probably Australia's best racing engineer/engine builder- his vote is Alfa v6, BMW six, Porsche six. If you took a Holden to him he would say just burn your money in a pile- at least you will get warmth from it. For your pleasure here is a Alfa V6 DTM car from last century- A v8 stupidcar would not know which way it went. Both these cars run a 2.5 l V6 of 480hp no turbos, just 12,000 revs of glory. Now back on topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The coreshift in red Holden Blocks was the worst I've ever seen in any motor. Ralph Nader reckoned they only got away with it because we hadn't much choice here.. To overbore for some race motors we would get one out of around 5 blocks that would take it. The cranks struck harmonics at just over 6,000 rpm/ The good Torana had a billett steel crankshaft, specially made for that model. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 For your pleasure here is a Alfa V6 DTM car from last century- A v8 stupidcar would not know which way it went. It says 'amazing sound', to me it just sounds like a screaming rice burner or an Aerochute being maxed out on revs. Beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Maybe you will like this one better, the first did sound a bit naff but no airbox. For those not aware- the Alfa's completely dominated touring cars and DTM in the 90's. Humbled BMW, Merc and Audi, all by a company constantly on the verge of bankruptcy and small race budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 FIAT Chrysler build the Ferrari derived V6 in Italy for the Alpha . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 It says 'amazing sound', to me it just sounds like a screaming rice burner or an Aerochute being maxed out on revs. Beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder I guess. So I guess F1 sounds like a two stroke? As a side note for F1 fans- there used to be a one make series called Pro car as a intro race for F1, that was the BMW M1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The XU1 did not suffer mechanical problems. However, 'electrical' problems - such as the alternator being pushed off the side by a broken rod - were not unknown 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 FIAT Chrysler build the Ferrari derived V6 in Italy for the Alpha . Nev Yes, this is for the new Alfa Guila QV, Alfa have thrown away all the front wheel drive crap and going back to rear wheel drive and 4wd. The new car will be catergory killer. It weighs what a Bmw M135i does but has the power of a M5. Lots of alloy, carbon fibre for some panels, seats, propshaft and brakes as standard in the hot QV model. The motor is a hotted up Maserati V6, 510hp and 1500kg. They were going to launch 2013 but Sergio -fiat boss said it was not good enough and scrapped it. Started again with a dozen of the best minds from Ferrari, Maserati and Alfa. A complete cleansheet design done in a skunkworks. No accountants or marketing peeps allowed. From scratch to new car in two years. They are going back to been a engineer lead company The Germans should be very worried. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Precisely....................I did say who in their right mind..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Sorry about my calling ALFA Romeo, ALPHA. Greece has been in the news so much lately. Nev 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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