Heavy Landing

[Geoff13]

This is the second time that I have had the misfortune to start a thread in this section.

 

After the last one I had actually hoped never to start another.

 

Anyway I made a booboo and this is my story.

 

I was away on a flyaway the week before Easter and having a ball. Flew down on Friday and did a few landings at a couple of strips. These were private strips on a property but well marked and used.

 

On the Saturday morning I awoke feeling a little off colour (1st Warning Human Factors not 100% do not fly) and decided to stay at the campsite as everyone else went flying. After an hour or so I started to feel a bit better so decided to follow the rest of the guys.

 

As I came in for this landing on a strip that was not difficult and I had landed on before there were quite a few other aircraft on the ground either side of the strip. As a result on final I actually started to feel cramped (2nd Warning Not comfy, go around or go somewhere that you are)

 

Although the strip was plenty long enough for me to not only land but also come to a full stop and take off again I have no idea why but I got it into my head that I needed to land and stop before I reached the other aircraft. (3rd warning same as second really) All I had to do was keep on the centre line and land.

 

Well I decided to land short and pulled 3rd stage of flaps. I had only ever landed twice before with full flaps on a strip i knew well under ideal conditions. Well from the minute I hit full flaps I was behind the airplane.

 

It was like being on an elevator. At the end of the day I stalled it at flare height and dropped it onto the runway.

 

In hindsight I probably needed 1000 more rpm which I should have applied at the same time as the flaps. but by the time I registered that I was flaring/landing.

 

I do not remember it but I hit the magnetos as it stalled realising that I was to late for power I must have decided to protect the prop. As I say I do not remember doing it but I came to a stop in about 3 inches with the magnetos off and the fan stopped.

 

So the damage. Alright I bent my plane on a strip the 1000 pilots had landed on and were standing watching me. OK maybe it was only 10 to 15 guys. So damage to pride huge.

 

A bent nose wheel, a couple of bent fittings to the under carriage. Airplane 2 inches lower on one side than the other. Some brackets bent which means breaking the aircraft in half to replace and to date about 9 weeks on the ground. The good news is the parts should arrive next week and then hopefully 2 weeks to repair it but then I said 3 weeks to replace the motor and it took 7 months.

 

In the short term it took me 36 hours and 2 round trips of 16 hours to get her home. That was a hectic 2 days.

 

The most valuable lesson from it all to me is if it does not feel right than it probably isn't but more importantly is to take an instructor with me and actually learn the full capabilities on my airplane before I try them on my own..

 

 

[storchy neil]

sorry about the plane the good news is that can happen to anybody

 

The most valuable lesson from it all to me is if it does not feel right than it probably isn't but more importantly is to take an instructor with me and actually learn the full capabilities on my airplane before I try them on my own..

 

that is why I have over a hundred hrs of duel on several planes neil

 

 

[mnewbery]

Thanks heaps for taking the time to share your story. Seriously

 

 

[SSCBD]

Sorry to hear. However being the hard head I picked up your statement

 

"Well I decided to land short and pulled 3rd stage of flaps. I had only ever landed twice before with full flaps on a strip i knew well under ideal conditions. Well from the minute I hit full flaps I was behind the airplane".

 

Why have you only landed twice with full flap.

 

This seems to me the lack of training and or ongoing self practice which took you outside your comfort zone with operating the aircraft. Can you confirm this. I am not have a shot at you.

 

 

[biggles]

Flying with a group has many benefits, but at the same time can place undue stress on some of the participants, such as when the group decides to continue on ,where one individual may consider it unwise. This uneasy feeling on a person, already not feeling well, may cause that person to make poor judgements, in relation to the decisions pilots have to make ,particularly when flying in less than ideal conditions . If you do not feel 100% then best stay on the ground .... Bob

 

 

[facthunter]

Good on you for putting your experience on line for others. Once you think you have no more to learn you are going to a dark place. Dual time should always be beneficial. If it isn't, get a more switched on instructor you can communicate with. If your performance degrades, it's often due to some distraction affecting you at that point. Most "errors" happen in a non standard situation. Not happy?? Go around. It's always been my view, ( except where you have lost it so much or the go around won't be safe either) that you have to ride it out. Good reason to ensure the seat belt is tight also. Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

Sorry to hear. However being the hard head I picked up your statement"Well I decided to land short and pulled 3rd stage of flaps. I had only ever landed twice before with full flaps on a strip i knew well under ideal conditions. Well from the minute I hit full flaps I was behind the airplane".

Why have you only landed twice with full flap.

 

This seems to me the lack of training and or ongoing self practice which took you outside your comfort zone with operating the aircraft. Can you confirm this. I am not have a shot at you.

I have landed many times with full flap, and certainly did plenty of it in training, but not in this aircraft.

 

To be quite honest I do not think the Hanuman needs 3 stages of flap on 2nd stage it gives everything you need to land in all situations that I have been in. The 3rd stage is overkill and that is why I have only used them the couple of times.

 

Hindsight being as good as it is, I now realise that I should have done 1 of the following.

 

a. learned how to use the 3rd stage of flap properly by flying with an instructor more. or

 

b. Disabled the 3rd stage so that I would not be tempted to use it at the wrong time and stuff it up.

 

Step (a) would be the better solution and obviously when I get her up and running again that is what I shall do.

 

 

[facthunter]

Unless you are very familiar with your plane be configured and in the slot and STABLE by a set height on final. I would suggest this is well before 80 feet for your plane at which point you can't really look at your instruments and should be focussing on the planes attitude, the flare, being on centre and just landing it. If you are not on top of it by then it's simple. Go around.. Lots of flap means potential rapid speed change. Draggy low inertia plane with less speed= less effective controls. Nev

 

 

[Oscar]

Geoff, the fact that you share the 'bad' stuff, is admirable. A good, accurate description of a situation that turns of to be less than 'optimum', combined with good analysis and very good conclusions, helps us all - well, certainly me, who has almost no power experience upon which to fall back. And - as with your detailed description of the 'smoking fuel pump' incident, may I say I admire the fact that you quite evidently kept the 'bigger picture' firmly in mind with your (presumably, somewhat instinctive, from your description) reaction to cut the power and save a hard bounce from becoming a bulk strip and prop replacement!.

 

I have once - and that was enough - jumped into an airplane (glider) when I knew I shouldn't (heavy cold, tired, somewhat dehydrated.) I hadn't meant to fly that day but in front of a crowd of people waiting to fly, had been basically 'asked' by the CFI to take a glider up to facilitate a change of strip because the wind had shifted nearly 90 degrees and piped up. Suffice it to say that I got it back on the ground, but the next thing I remember after that was someone holding my wrist and shouting 'It's OK, he's got a pulse'. Adrenalin can only get you so far... and I had it burned in on that occasion that I do NOT want to hear: 'It's NOT OK, he hasn't got a pulse'..

 

I don't have the power flying experience to effectively contribute anything of value here - but glider experience is that you only have one shot at landing. Whether it's a routine circuit or an unexpected outlanding, we were trained that at 1,000 feet AGL in zero lift, the ground was where we were headed, so make that work. ( I have a couple of times climbed out from less, but only in serious lift e.g. a strong thermal coming off a brown field). Gliders have flaps and airbrakes, but you don't (usually) play the flaps, you keep as much height as reasonable and use the brakes and sideslipping to increase descent rate. You keep as much height and sensible airspeed as you can, right up to the moment you can afford to dump both because they are absolutely redundant.

 

In gliders, you normally 'land short' - because it's a pain for everybody to retrieve a glider back to the launch point from way down the field. We get used to 'playing' the circuit height and speed. IF - because of this experience - you are left with uncertainties about your technique: can I suggest you try a few glider flights? You might find it very confidence-building to get the feeling that the aerodynamics is what keeps the damn crate flying - not the noise out the front!.

 

(And if I sound in any way condescending - my instructor, who was also a gliding instructor - is patiently trying to get me to understand that the noise out the front is something I can use... after my first five or so circuits, he asked me gently if I was consciously setting up final on sideslip, or was it ingrained habit? -which it is..)

 

 

[Nico13]

Hi Geoff,

 

Although I have some hrs to go yet before solo these sort of stories are what is needed and your candour is appreciated.

 

As can also be appreciated going solo is when these words are more relevant than probably at any other time.

 

I can also be appreciative of this because although my official training is only at just over five and a half hrs other experiences and ten years in aviation has seen me be possibly over confident and when your told you are not having any difficulties and are hrs in front of where others are that confidence is boosted even more.

 

So having no real fear of flying but being very aware of my situation is something I keep a very careful eye on and this story is the sort of thing that brings one back to reality very quickly as it demonstrates just how easy things can go pear shaped.

 

Very glad to hear all is ok in the end and hope all goes well in future.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Yes Geoff...you have been a very quiet boy. Have missed you down at the hangar. Need someone to chat with when I am there and have a laugh with. Roger told me the parts are not far away so thats great.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I suppose the the actuall best thing about the whole incident is that I could walk away and nothing other than pride was harmed.

 

A bonus was that Nickdunks84 from this forum was there and graciously gave me a lift back to my camp site in his bearhawk. It was a short hop but I really did enjoy it and don't think that I thanked him for it.

 

So thank you Nick I did appreciate the lift. There were other members of this forum there at the time and some may have some input as they saw it from the other side.

 

I guess if you have to bend one you may as well do it in front of a bunch of other pilots so you can really get a good debrief.

 

 

[seb7701]

Always a bugger to hear when someone's had a fender bender, but in honesty, more pleasing to hear that the plane was the only casualty and that the trusty x-air can be patched up in no time thanks to a few brackets, bits and pieces! At the end of the day, these minor slip-ups happen and you're wiser for it!

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Thanks for sharing Geoff. Your self analysis, as always, is very candid. For what it's worth, when I apply more flap I always try be looking at the attitude of the nose and ensure thatI lower the nose as the flap comes on. This allows the aircraft to maintain speed with the extra drag. Power can do this too but power will try to raise the nose and that needs to be watched of course.

 

 

[DrZoos]

Wow Geoff hats off to you for admitting this.... This sounds so arrogant, but I have never been close to such a situation and so far cannot ever imagine being so....not sure if its my younger age, or the fact Im extremely competent with my motor skills, or perhaps , Ive just never been remotely affected in this way by any illness.

 

Anyway I respect your honesty and seriously hope it helps others. Sorry to hear about this, but so glad your ok....and even better your sharing your experience which can only be a good thing for everyone.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

I was wondering why I hadn't seen or heard you around Geoff, good to see your ok mate, as they say you can fix the plane. Well done putting your story up here for all of us to read and learn by and we all hope to see you soon back up in the air. If your over Redcliffe way and you need a flying fix while your getting yours fixed, give me a call you can come for a fly with me in the Sportstar anytime...

 

David

 

 

[Hargraves]

Thanks for the incident debriefing sir and very glad you are ok. You not only did a heavy landing but by sharing the experience you also struck a cord with me. Iv,e been flying my storch muster since march this year and have been doing so very sedately and moderately in good weather at approximately 40 percent of its true stol preformance ability due to the very reason you have pointed out in your debrief. When my selected instructor is available ( very shortly ) i will recieve the training that will allow me to fly her within her amazing stol limits, in the meantime i,ll fly her like a normal aircraft especially at takeoffs and landings. Thanks again sir for your valuable debrief Cheers Hargraves

 

 

[M61A1]

Wow Geoff hats off to you for admitting this.... This sounds so arrogant, but I have never been close to such a situation and so far cannot ever imagine being so....not sure if its my younger age, or the fact Im extremely competent with my motor skills, or perhaps , Ive just never been remotely affected in this way by any illness.

Or just completely unaware....perhaps:stirrer:

 

 

[Blueadventures]

This is the second time that I have had the misfortune to start a thread in this section.After the last one I had actually hoped never to start another.

Anyway I made a booboo and this is my story.

 

I was away on a flyaway the week before Easter and having a ball. Flew down on Friday and did a few landings at a couple of strips. These were private strips on a property but well marked and used.

 

On the Saturday morning I awoke feeling a little off colour (1st Warning Human Factors not 100% do not fly) and decided to stay at the campsite as everyone else went flying. After an hour or so I started to feel a bit better so decided to follow the rest of the guys.

 

As I came in for this landing on a strip that was not difficult and I had landed on before there were quite a few other aircraft on the ground either side of the strip. As a result on final I actually started to feel cramped (2nd Warning Not comfy, go around or go somewhere that you are)

 

Although the strip was plenty long enough for me to not only land but also come to a full stop and take off again I have no idea why but I got it into my head that I needed to land and stop before I reached the other aircraft. (3rd warning same as second really) All I had to do was keep on the centre line and land.

 

Well I decided to land short and pulled 3rd stage of flaps. I had only ever landed twice before with full flaps on a strip i knew well under ideal conditions. Well from the minute I hit full flaps I was behind the airplane.

 

It was like being on an elevator. At the end of the day I stalled it at flare height and dropped it onto the runway.

 

In hindsight I probably needed 1000 more rpm which I should have applied at the same time as the flaps. but by the time I registered that I was flaring/landing.

 

I do not remember it but I hit the magnetos as it stalled realising that I was to late for power I must have decided to protect the prop. As I say I do not remember doing it but I came to a stop in about 3 inches with the magnetos off and the fan stopped.

 

So the damage. Alright I bent my plane on a strip the 1000 pilots had landed on and were standing watching me. OK maybe it was only 10 to 15 guys. So damage to pride huge.

 

A bent nose wheel, a couple of bent fittings to the under carriage. Airplane 2 inches lower on one side than the other. Some brackets bent which means breaking the aircraft in half to replace and to date about 9 weeks on the ground. The good news is the parts should arrive next week and then hopefully 2 weeks to repair it but then I said 3 weeks to replace the motor and it took 7 months.

 

In the short term it took me 36 hours and 2 round trips of 16 hours to get her home. That was a hectic 2 days.

 

The most valuable lesson from it all to me is if it does not feel right than it probably isn't but more importantly is to take an instructor with me and actually learn the full capabilities on my airplane before I try them on my own..

Hi Geoff Thanks for sharing. Its a bugger that it occured. Good to hear the parts are arriving soon and the refurb will done as soon as possible. Re the comment about learning the full capabilities of the XairH If your BFR is due in the near future maybe do that and add the extra bit about full flap, a slow speed as per the flight manual and doing turns as if turning base onto final etc up at 3 or 4000 and working the rpm / speed control / stall feel etc. You will be better for the exoerience and the refresh etc that you plan. Look forward to hearing the fix up is finished and your flights in her. Best regards Mike.

 

 

[SSCBD]

Wow Geoff hats off to you for admitting this.... This sounds so arrogant, but I have never been close to such a situation and so far cannot ever imagine being so....not sure if its my younger age, or the fact Im extremely competent with my motor skills, or perhaps , Ive just never been remotely affected in this way by any illness.Anyway I respect your honesty and seriously hope it helps others. Sorry to hear about this, but so glad your ok....and even better your sharing your experience which can only be a good thing for everyone.

Dr Zoos - Really - Sounds like you are young bold pilot.

 

Hope the air gods don't smite thee.

 

 

[Right Rudder]

Thanks for sharing Geoff, with solo rapidly approaching this sort of information is invaluable

 

Cheers

 

 

[Geoff13]

Well the parts are sitting in the back of the Ute and are heading up the hangar tomorrow. I have been up there several times. We took the opportunity to do a full Carby rebuild and I have run the engine up to full operating temperature for about 5 mins every two weeks. Tomorrow when I drop the parts off, I will run her up again then drain all the fuel to be replaced with fresh fuel when she flys again. Hopefully the repair mans estimate is not to far out and we will be flying in a couple of weeks.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I do NOT want to hear: 'It's NOT OK, he hasn't got a pulse'..

It's ok, you won't hear it.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Satisfaction. They test flew her yesterday. I haven't seen her for 2 weeks so tomorrow is the big day.

 

The incident happened a week before ANZAC day so 4 months.

 

It was 6 weeks before I even had time to do an assessment and determine to get someone else to do the job and put it through insurance.

 

Then 2 months to get the parts manufactured and delivered. And now 3 week to do the job.

 

I have been so busy with work that I could not have done the job in the time frame even if I had wanted to and to be honest I didn't want to.

 

I have decided that I am one of those people who just want to fly and I am happy to pay someone else to do the majority of the work for me.

 

Yes I understand my aircraft. Yes I still want to do all my own checks and balances but if there is a problem or something other than basic Maintenance I really do not want to be spending my flying time doing that.

 

So yes I could have done the repairs but not within the time frame it has taken, but I simply did not want to.

 

So tomorrow weather permitting I and off to the field to take her for a fly. A few circuits to start with and if I am happy with that I will head off on a bit of a Nav.

 

Brisbane Valley Airshow is on tomorrow but I will wait and see how I feel after some circuits, airwork and a bit of a Nav before deciding if I want to venture home through there.

 

I have only flown twice since the incident so I will take it easy and see how I feel.

 

The Back Half. The worst damage was to the tops of the two upright legs you see in this photo.

 

The left one is bent at 90 degrees

 

 

The front half. Nose leg bent, not badly but still bent.

 

Despite the damage and the apparent weakness looking at the wheels, the wheels themselves stood up very well.

 

The axles and axle mounts were changed however.

 

 

And when the engineer knows what he is doing it goes back together as well.

 

 

I did take the opportunity to have some other tasks that have been on my to do list for some time completed as well.

 

So instead of possible flying her last weekend they spent a couple of extra days working on things for me.

 

 

And yesterday she went for the test flight and the a short Jolly after by the engineer and his helper to prove she was a going concern.

 

Tomorrow it is my turn.

 

 

[Robbo]

Satisfaction. They test flew her yesterday. I haven't seen her for 2 weeks so tomorrow is the big day.The incident happened a week before ANZAC day so 4 months.

It was 6 weeks before I even had time to do an assessment and determine to get someone else to do the job and put it through insurance.

 

Then 2 months to get the parts manufactured and delivered. And now 3 week to do the job.

 

I have been so busy with work that I could not have done the job in the time frame even if I had wanted to and to be honest I didn't want to.

 

I have decided that I am one of those people who just want to fly and I am happy to pay someone else to do the majority of the work for me.

 

Yes I understand my aircraft. Yes I still want to do all my own checks and balances but if there is a problem or something other than basic Maintenance I really do not want to be spending my flying time doing that.

 

So yes I could have done the repairs but not within the time frame it has taken, but I simply did not want to.

 

So tomorrow weather permitting I and off to the field to take her for a fly. A few circuits to start with and if I am happy with that I will head off on a bit of a Nav.

 

Brisbane Valley Airshow is on tomorrow but I will wait and see how I feel after some circuits, airwork and a bit of a Nav before deciding if I want to venture home through there.

 

I have only flown twice since the incident so I will take it easy and see how I feel.

 

The Back Half. The worst damage was to the tops of the two upright legs you see in this photo.

 

The left one is bent at 90 degrees

 

[ATTACH]45356[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]45356[/ATTACH]

 

The front half. Nose leg bent, not badly but still bent.

 

Despite the damage and the apparent weakness looking at the wheels, the wheels themselves stood up very well.

 

The axles and axle mounts were changed however.

 

[ATTACH]45357[/ATTACH]

 

And when the engineer knows what he is doing it goes back together as well.

 

[ATTACH]45358[/ATTACH]

 

I did take the opportunity to have some other tasks that have been on my to do list for some time completed as well.

 

So instead of possible flying her last weekend they spent a couple of extra days working on things for me.

 

[ATTACH]45359[/ATTACH]

 

And yesterday she went for the test flight and the a short Jolly after by the engineer and his helper to prove she was a going concern.

 

Tomorrow it is my turn.

Good luck Geoff, enjoy getting airborne again