kaz3g Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I fully understand that but that's not my point. Why should I have access to the register to find out if someone else's aircraft is registered. To me that's an invasion of privacy. Hi there I'd like to try to respond to this and your other recent posts because I think they raise important questions. I don't recall any "bagging" of the Bingo pilot per se and I am very relieved to hear that he and his passengers are recouperating. There were, however, a number of expressions of concern about the possible adverse results for us all if his aircraft was unregistered as appeared to be the case from the available information and if the reports stating 3 people were on board were correct. This thread has discussed at some length the concerns that may be relevant should people not comply with the CAA, regs and other legislation then subsequently cause injury to persons or damage to property. In particular, it has discussed a legitimate fear of the possible detrimental effects that ensuing adverse publicity may have on all those who do comply including future restrictions or limitations on the privilege. Finally, it has discussed the difficulty that an organisation like RAA or even CASA has in effectively monitoring flying schools, maintenance organisations, pilots and private maintainenance because of the limited number of staff that can be allocated to this work unless costs go through the roof (remember, user pays). A public Register is one way of keeping people honest and holding them to account. I don't want to share airspace with someone who flies an unregistered aircraft or has no licence and therefore has no insurance and no ethics, either... I don't even want them flying over my home. The argument supporting publication is that the right of the public to know that a particular aircraft is currently registered has greater importance than the right of the individual to keep details of his aircraft ownership private . I personally have no problem with that. No registration or no licence or reckless operation negates any insurance policy a pilot might have that's why, when it finally comes "down to the pilot", the penalties are quite significant. He might "make the call", but it could be others who pay the consequences. Another way of ensuring compliance with the law is for law-abiding and responsible pilots and aircraft owners, recognising that unlawful and irresponsible activities affect us all, to report their individual concerns to the relevant authorities. There are lots of ways by which this can be done without leaving oneself open to retribution including the CAIR process and a quiet phone call to the Ops Mngr or CASA from a public phone. Another way is to have lots more enforcement people running around checking up on all of us and generally pissing us all off by taking up time we would rather spend aviating while also costing us heaps. I can't for the life of me understand why an up-to-date database accessible on the internet can't be provided... the system for new registrations and renewals must surely interact with that database, mustn't it? (I see that the VH-KKW rego of the C152 in the ATSB report discussed on another thread was re-allocated months ago and the current details are available). I might also add that a public Register of VH registered aircraft doesn't seem to have raised any great human rights/privacy issues and it's been in place for nearly a century. Someone may be able to confirm my suspicion that publication of the Register is also an ICAO requirement. kaz 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks all for your kind thoughts. At the end of the day these folks who are friends of mine and many others in this area, are aviators and adventurers like the rest of us. And as dazza said, we are just human and do make mistakes, and bad decisions on occasions. This is the second time in a month or so, that I have had to visit friends after an air accident, in the Townsville Hospital. The other being my friend Nev Walker, who crashed his Safari helicopter just before Xmas. Happily he has made a good recovery, and will fly again I'm sure. Although it is not pleasant looking at a friends' badly shattered leg with traction pins protuding, however it still sure as hell beats the alternative. A deep stitched gash on a forehead, showing that had the impact been just that bit harder, than that may well have been it .. I did enjoy seeing my friends today, and 'I'm glad I made the effort, however it does also drive home the reality and potential danger of our sport, if your day goes bad for some reason, or you make a bad decision. Please make that extra effort to fly a little better, and to ensure all your decisions are good, and safe ones. It has not dampened my urge to fly in any way, but I reckon it will make me a little more deliberate with my thought processes, and hopefully a little safer than I have been on occasions in the past. I am very happy as I write this to have had the chance to chat to my friends today.................................Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Hi Maj, I am truly pleased your friends are still with us and yes we are all not perfect, infact not one of us in the world is. Unfortunatley we need to learn from others misfortunes as this is not the first and wont be the last misfortune in aviation. But if we can all take a step back before we fly or before we plan on doing something not quite coshia within our sport we might just reduce the amount of incidents currently happening in our orgnization. Life is precious and can be cut short in an instant, just think is the risk worth the consequence if something is to go wrong when you playing outside the guidelines.. I wish your friends a speedy recovery and give them my best wishes. Cheers Alf 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thank you a lot alf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Your welcome Maj and one day i may get the pleasure of meeting in person some of you fellow formanites on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That would be my pleasure Alf............Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I fully understand that but that's not my point. Why should I have access to the register to find out if someone else's aircraft is registered. To me that's an invasion of privacy. Gidday once again rage83 , and apologies for the previous error. ( are finding it hard to get used to wearing specs full time , and still try to do without them to my detriment ) I think "Kaz" has answered most of your concerns in a comprehensive, easy to understand manner , however I would just like to say ,with regard to ......" Why should I have access to the register to find out if someone else's aircraft is registered. To me that's an invasion of privacy."...... essentially the the Commonwealth Privacy Act seeks to limit information "...... about an individual whose identity is apparent or can be ascertained from the information contained therein .......". In the case of our colleague in Cannonvale , alleged to have had two passengers on board , there appears to be nothing contained in the Register that would allow his identity to become known , hence it would appear not to be in contravention of any of the provisions contained in the Commonwealth or State Privacy laws . Personally I don't object to my aircraft details being published , there is nothing there to associate the entry to me , not that it would concern me . I do see another benefit however , the Register enables people to identify the aircraft , and also to independently verify , its make/model , date first registered etc., prior to purchase for example . Many consider ( cynically I might add ) that the only people that should be concerned about details such as this being published , are those with something to conceal . " There is only one person that needs to know if an aircraft is registered and that is the pilot and he can find all the information he needs when doing his daily walk around " - Mmmm , Certainly the pilot should ensure that the a/c is registered ,and yes he should be able to see the Rego. sticker , provided it is located where it can be seen during the 'walk around' . I have seen some located in strange places and certainly not visible from the outside. Personally , I have never seen a hirer take time to read the Registration label , I find that they are usually more concerned about other airworthyness/safety issues . I can also say that during my training , I assumed ( maybe naively ), that because I was learning with a registered training school , those administrative/ legal issues would have been taken care of . What you say should occur , but in actual fact I doubt it does . However I would hate to think that some recalcitrant owner/operator/instructor , knowing full well that his a/c was not registered , played on the naivety of some young pilot , or glossed over the issue - " cheques in the mail " sort of thing . "If the owner chooses not to register his aircraft that is his call " - Certainly 'his call' , but whether its a good one or not is another matter , particularly if an accident occurs involving personal injury or property damage, things will get a little messy . Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think the CASA register is a completely different kettle of fish... I will demonstrate... VH PUT Power Driven Aeroplane with TRICYCLE-FIXED landing gear Single Piston engine Manufacturer: PIPER AIRCRAFT CORP Model: PA-22-160 Serial number: 22-6673 Aircraft first registered in Australia: 15 November 1989 Year of manufacture: 1959 Full Registration Registration holder as of 16 December 2005 JOUBERT, Jonathan 8 Railway Tce LARGS BAY SA 5016 AUSTRALIA Registered operator as of 16 December 2005 JOUBERT, Jonathan 8 Railway Tce LARGS BAY SA 5016 AUSTRALIA --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VH GSS Motor-Glider with OTHER landing gear Single Piston engine Manufacturer: SLINGSBY SAILPLANES LTD Model: T61-C Serial number: 1752 Aircraft first registered in Australia: 23 March 1973 Year of manufacture: 1971 Full Registration Registration holder as of 14 May 2009 ORTON, John 30 Hewitt Way BOORAGOON WA 6154 AUSTRALIA Registered operator as of 14 May 2009 ORTON, John 30 Hewitt Way BOORAGOON WA 6154 AUSTRALIA VH JPB Power Driven Aeroplane with TAILWHEEL-FIXED landing gear Single Piston engine Manufacturer: AMATEUR BUILT AIRCRAFT Model: W-8 Serial number: W27 Aircraft first registered in Australia: 01 August 1985 Year of manufacture: 1985 Full Registration Registration holder as of 13 May 2006 JONES, Howard 66 Towton Way LANGFORD WA 6147 AUSTRALIA Registered operator as of 13 May 2006 JONES, Howard 66 Towton Way LANGFORD WA 6147 AUSTRALIA Hmm... A simple search of the name James Morrison bought this nice Cirrus up on the CASA site... Just the sort of aeroplane a celebrity would fly.... VH IPP Power Driven Aeroplane with TRICYCLE-FIXED landing gear Single Piston engine Manufacturer: CIRRUS DESIGN CORPORATION Model: SR20 Serial number: 2072 Aircraft first registered in Australia: 13 January 2011 Year of manufacture: 2010 Full Registration Registration holder as of 13 January 2011 MORRISON, James Po Box 632 NEWPORT NSW 2106 AUSTRALIA Registered operator as of 13 January 2011 MORRISON, James Po Box 632 NEWPORT NSW 2106 AUSTRALIA How is this not a possible problem for anyone... want to post a photo of your airplane online... be very, very careful... Wealthy or famous... someone who needs their privacy.... SORRY... YOU AREN'T ENTITLED TO PRIVACY!!! can you spot the mistake here.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Get over it, as Kaz says its been there for a hundred years. The more important issue, and what should be raising indignation is what happened to an innocent little child - what about the rights there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XAIRVTW Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I dont know about you blokes, but I am seriously starting to get jacked off with all the wankers who allegedly have not been doing the right thing lately.This is making all Aviators look bad.Especially RAAus. This type of thing only gives CASA more reason to tighten the grip on RAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 There is no longer any need to doubt that this pilot was either unlicensed or his aircraft unregistered. I have sighted both his current pilots license, (with just about every endorsement available), and the current aircraft registration documents. It would be appreciated if all could cease casting any further assertions in these areas........Thanks..........................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 There is no longer any need to doubt that this pilot was either unlicensed or his aircraft unregistered. I have sighted both his current pilots license, (with just about every endorsement available), and the current aircraft registration documents. It would be appreciated if all could cease casting any further assertions in these areas........Thanks..........................................................Maj... Thanks, Maj, for putting at least that record straight! I'm sure we'll hear about the other issue (the title of this thread) in due time. In the mean time, the injured must be given time to heal and then there will be opportunity to follow up on the rest. Pass the Forumites' best wishes to the hospitalised crew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you Eightyknots and all others, I visited my friends in Hospital on Saturday and Sunday, together with other friends and well wishers. They are doing well, and to see them smile again was enjoyable to say the least. Thank you all for your kind concerns...............................................Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Maj, Lets hope the surgery in Brisbane goes well and they are all reunited very soon. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have sighted both his current pilots license, (with just about every endorsement available) Well not current now one would assume - unless he has a two passenger endorsement his licence would be about as valid as the Costa Concordia Captains. I really hope he recovers fully and quickly (+ the passengers especially) and is able to fly again but this time with a PPL thank you, enough damage to the reputation of RAAus has been done of late (which means to all of us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 So after 93 posts the conclusion is that the only issue is the one clearly stated in the title of this thread. Other than the posts showing concern for the wellbeing of the pilot and passengers and those setting the record straight the rest is speculative BS IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I wouldn't disagree with you, except some of the speculation was probably reasonable discussion. This is a working document, and what it has done is identify the legal position of seat capacity thanks to Kaz. It also has indentified that what might seem to be an innocent trip, maybe just a circuit with a child on board can go wrong in seconds, and for what? Is a child up to three ever going to remember a flight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Turbo Don't underestimate the impact of a positive experience on a three year old. A stranger gave my father and I a short ride in a sailing dingy with a red sail(all I can remember about it) when I was two and a half years old. Lead me to a lifetime of fascination with things with sails and wings, work it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Regardless of whether taking an infant as a second PAX is legal in a two place aircraft (thanks, Kaz. That was very enlightening), I think it should fail the test of applying prudent threat-error management. What would be interesting, is if the pilot, in retrospect, would still consider it a low risk exercise (all aspects considered) and one he would be willing to continue. We all have our individual risk comfort profiles and while it is easy after an accident to say the price for realising the risk was too high, if that possibility was understood at the outset and accepted (in this case by both adults), then there is little to argue. What many people don't consciously realise is that risk has to be evaluated both on a likelihood of occurrence, but also on the basis of the seriousness of the possible outcome of each risk. One may feel that a possibility of death is acceptable if the possibility of realising that risk is low enough...most of us drive cars! On the other hand one may be averse to a situation that had a very high likelihood of occurrence even if the consequences are only a minor injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So after 93 posts the conclusion is that the only issue is the one clearly stated in the title of this thread. Other than the posts showing concern for the wellbeing of the pilot and passengers and those setting the record straight the rest is speculative BS IMHO. My sentiments EXACTLY, and some of that speculation or ' discussion ' could also prove to be more harmful than helpful. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pookemon Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Everyone these days outsources IT jobs, the Indians can churn out code for a fraction of the cost of an Aussie. Oh dear god. If it were that simple then I would have been out of a job years ago. Instead people pay me $100-$120 per hour to develop their software (yes including databases/web sites etc). My only dealings with the RAA thusfar have been to do with my license and receiving the Magazine. And so far they've done a brilliant job of it, with a more than satisfactory period of time for my card to be returned. With my IT Professional's hat on I can honestly say, hand on my heart, that the RAA web site is horrendous. I've noticed some changes recently - which makes me believe that this is their new site. There's dead links, it looks awful (even from a DBA/programmers perspective) and alot of the information is out of date (like the expired rego details). With 10k members, that's ~30 (in round figures) to be renewed each day (inc. weekends). From an IT perspective that should only involve (a) Running a report each day (or even just once a week) to generate reminder letters and (b) processing the payments. And the whole system should be integrated to their web site. To give you an idea of the work involved - a few years ago I wrote a basic online store for a client. It allowed the listing of products with images in one of 3 categories, a basic shopping cart and it would record payment details. It also had an app that would output reports for the processing of payments and orders. It took around 80 hours to write. The RAA have to manage members, licenses, registration, regulations, the monthly aircraft advertising, AD's, events, news, etc. etc. If we all paid $5 extra, that might pay for the development (*might* - but it'd be a stretch I think) - but then there's the hardware/hosting required which is an ongoing cost that could be (for example) $10k for the hardware, another $10k for the software and then they need to pay for the hosting/web connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 There was a link found a while ago with a very different website that looked good, almost complete; though I have heard rumours that RAAus have switched developers mid-project... http://dev.raa.asn.au/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 http://dev.raa.asn.au/ Ooh, that is looking realy good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Checked that cancelled rego list and my interim rego is there 'Cancelled' I havent got it to an airport for final inspection yet !. I'm in trouble before I get it finished, should I sell it as "parts" spacesailor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Hi spacesailor... Off topic but how about some photos and words about your Hummel...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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