Electric Rag and Tube

[kasper]

9 minutes ago, RFguy said:

Kasper, that's a very light motor indeed.

Must be pricey. (high end rare earths) 

 

that 20/25kW,  gather 20 continuous, 25 short term. water cooled r air cooled ? gather air cooled in that size.

 

 

Yes. 20 constant with 25 peak.  Air cooled.  It is a single out runner but if you want more power for larger aircraft they do duplex motors up to 40/60kw that are under 12kg for the motor … an air cooled 912 replacement that weighs 12kg and is under 40cm across. 

[RFguy]

Yeah the HPD50D   50kWc./70kWp  is not quite a 100hp rotax , but it would make a good 80 hp rotax changeout

IE 100hp rotax is 74 kW. , 75% is  56kW.. and 100hp rotax will do about 68kW continuous.

However, as a replacement for a 80hp rotax, perfect

 

How much is the one, the motor, you are looking at?

Maybe they can oil cool the 50/70 motor and get 60/80 out of it....

 

[Methusala]

2 hours ago, kasper said:

 

it’s just the $$ and time that is slowing me down.  The sapphire has been stripped of the engine and systems but still balking at the $$ for the Geiger system. 

Kaspar, stages of man is the answer. Either you are in the still developing state of existence where all $$$ need to be shepherded for children's school etc or you reach the end stage (some call this retirement) where the money is your super and intended for enjoyment of your later years. Hopefully you've reached thay stage in which case... don't think about it, just do it! Don

[kasper]

The true budget let’s make do and mend in me says grabs series 1 Nissan Leaf and monster it.  The 40kw battery pack including bms is 240kg and that’s 48 battery units inside the pressed steel case.  The 107hp motor is heavy at 58kg with the single ratio reduction but that puts the output shaft at under 2000rpm and it’s liquid cooled.  
 

all stripped out your at around 250kg of power system. That would be nice is a new - not retrofit - airframe that is designed around the spread out battery system and has low drag.  150kg for an airframe on top of that leaves 200kg for people In the current raaus area which would be a lot more endurance than the electric alpha. 
 

but I do not fool around with the 360vdc on my solar panel setup and I do not fancy the risk of reconfiguring the battery pack and all the gubbins into an airframe without an electronics engineer mate to stop me killig myself in assembling it.

[kasper]

4 minutes ago, Methusala said:

Kaspar, stages of man is the answer. Either you are in the still developing state of existence where all $$$ need to be shepherded for children's school etc or you reach the end stage (some call this retirement) where the money is your super and intended for enjoyment of your later years. Hopefully you've reached thay stage in which case... don't think about it, just do it! Don

5 years till all the money is split between my fun stuff and husbands fun stuff - not ultralights.   Still rebuilding other airframes and building my own for those five years and they are basically all ICE.  But we’re into sell a 912 trike I could plug n play electric and I already have the solar on the roof of the hangar to charge so low cost single seat fun potential.  

[Methusala]

Sorry, didn't mean to be sexist. "Stages of life" may be more appropriate.

[facthunter]

Take into account "OLD AGE" is not a promotion. Nev

Edited June 20, 2021 by facthunter

[onetrack]

The electric revolution is coming fast, and the Japanese car makers are heading it, along several fronts. New batteries (including swappable batteries), power packs, and hydrogen fuel cells are all part of the equation, according to their thoughts and development directions.

 

Honda are really firing up in these areas, with their swappable battery pack, designed as a power source for multiple transport devices, as a power source to replace smaller IC engines, and for equipment.

Honda are currently experimenting with their swappable battery pack in Indian rickshaws, and have drawn up an agreement with Komatsu to utilise these batteries in mini-excavators.

 

The company also has a portable power unit, designed to fit in a Honda EV car boot, and which can be lifted out and wheeled around to provide substantial amounts of power on worksites, or in emergency situations such as disasters, where the EV car and powerpack can supply power to keep a house going for up to 7 days (I bet some storm-affected Gippsland families would relish an outfit like this, right at present!).

 

There's little doubt that the electric power R&D area is getting multiple billions poured into it at present, and I think we are going to be pleasantly surprised shortly at the appearance of some major advances in battery and EV power, with battery development and power density improvements starting to offer worthwhile increases in energy and lifespan.

 

The Japanese Govt started up a major publicly-funded energy R&D operation, called NEDO (New Energy Development Organisation) in 1980, in response to the OPEC oil crisis.

NEDO has now developed into a massive global operation, intent on developing alternative energy sources that are clean and renewable, and which address concerns associated with every level of energy production and use.

 

The Japanese are unique in that their companies and corporations work fairly harmoniously together, and with common aims, on R&D, without a lot of the destructive competitive policies and personal greed methods of Western (and particularly American) companies and corporations.

 

https://www.rideapart.com/news/511592/honda-mobile-power-pack-testing-india/

 

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/33598951.html

 

https://www.internationalrentalnews.com/news/Honda-and-Komatsu-team-up-for-electric-mini-excavator/8012907.article?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=World-Construction-Week-22nd-June-2021

 

https://global.honda/innovation/FuelCell/PowerExporter9000-picturebook.html

 

https://www.nedo.go.jp/english/introducing/introducing_message_c.html

[kgwilson]

Toyota have been slow from a public perspective in the EV space generally concentrating on hybrids but news is now out about their battery R&D that has been going on for some time. All they say is the new technology is solid state battery technology in partnership with Panasonic. Current range is 500km but the battery can be fully recharged in 10 minutes. That is almost as good as going to the servo now for petrol. The 1000 km range is being met as well but the battery size and weight needs to come down to make this more practical.

[danny_galaga]

11 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Toyota have been slow from a public perspective in the EV space generally concentrating on hybrids but news is now out about their battery R&D that has been going on for some time. All they say is the new technology is solid state battery technology in partnership with Panasonic. Current range is 500km but the battery can be fully recharged in 10 minutes. That is almost as good as going to the servo now for petrol. The 1000 km range is being met as well but the battery size and weight needs to come down to make this more practical.

I don't think the 'Aussies need their utes and the weekend will be ruined' crowd will be happy even if you get 10,000 km range from one charge in one minute. Scomo and Allen Moans keep telling them it's the devil's work so that's that.

On 18/06/2021 at 12:30 PM, turboplanner said:

We're still awaiting the Mildura plant announced in the 1970s - much the same principle.

Maybe forget about the past. Construction on THIS project has already begun

Edited June 23, 2021 by danny_galaga

[onetrack]

I'm surprised that little has been mentioned by way of supercapacitor and ultracapacitor development in recent times - with what seems a concentration on battery development.

 

But the newer capacitor developments offer a great way of providing an energy boost to batteries, for when there's a need for a burst of power (vehicle acceleration and takeoff), and for storing energy when it's being regenerated.

 

I personally think we'll soon see a new line of very competent supercapacitors and ultracapacitors installed with more potent batteries, to provide a very good supply of power that meets the varying power requirements of transportation systems. Tesla invested into ultracapacitor manufacturing in 2018, but have been rather quiet on developments in that area, since then.

 

https://interestingengineering.com/could-ultracapacitors-replace-batteries-in-future-electric-vehicles

[kgwilson]

There are also the die hard petrol heads who reckoned that you'd never get enough performance out of an electric motor to make them competitive with a V8 supercar. They have all gone quiet now as the Tesla model S plaid does 0 to 100kmh in 1.9 seconds with a super version planned where the 0 to 100 mark will get that down to 1.3 seconds. No ICE engined car in the world can match that at any price.

[FlyBoy1960]

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by FlyBoy1960

[spacesailor]

ICE motor ' dragcar ' has broken the 4 second 1/4 mile ,.

BUT

 The powers that is, has change the 1/4 mile to french metres.

So that Aussie record won,t be upheld.

When l see EV dragsters competing against the top blokes.

spacesailor

[kgwilson]

32 minutes ago, FlyBoy1960 said:

 

And this is a slow Tesla at 3.3 seconds to 100kmh.

[turboplanner]

10 hours ago, kgwilson said:

And this is a slow Tesla at 3.3 seconds to 100kmh.

Anyone who raced slot cars knows electric's explosive power off the line.

The balancing act is: Power Demand vs Battery Capacity; If you want to exponentially maximise one the price is that you exponentially minimise the other.

BexRbetter gave us a classic example with the story about his trip to another city. Had plenty of quoted range for the journey at the start where he flew down the freeway passing cars left and right. Suddenly a battery warning came on, so he slowed down, the battery info showed he couldn't reach his destination so he slowed down more. That didn't help so he went into limp home mode - very slow, and from memory his one hour trip took about two hours.

[walrus]

I own two diesel land cruisers. I am quite happy to have an electric version in future provided two things are dealt with:

 

1. Range. I can currently travel melbourne - sydney without refueling, or Melbourne - broken hill, or broken hill - arkaroola, etc If I can’t have the same range, electric is no use to me.’

 

2. Charging time and available infrastructure. Exactly who is going to provide charging infrastructure in outback Australia and how are they going to do it? Think - ten to twenty camping caravanning or trailer rigs per day requiring 1500km + charges. - and that’s just for arkaroola or innamincka and suchlike.

[octave]

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

The balancing act is: Power Demand vs Battery Capacity; If you want to exponentially maximise one the price is that you exponentially minimise the other.

My experience is of my sons Tesla 3, yes of course you will reduce the range with crazy take offs etc, but not to the degree that some believe.    My son participates in motor sport and owns a couple of ICE race cars but his daily drive is a Tesla 3 AWD.   He does drive it pretty hard.  He has even had it on the track.    I do take the point that driving an EV aggressively will certainly reduce the range but modern EVs at the higher end of the market have plenty on battery range.  A lot of information that the critics of EVs use is quite old

 

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

BexRbetter

 

I do come across BexRbetter form time to time and a facebook group called Electric Vehicles for Australia, he posts occasionally., it appears that he sells EVs

 

5 hours ago, turboplanner said:

Suddenly a battery warning came

 Not sure what EV this was but this is not really how they work these days, you don't suddenly get a light telling you you are about to run out of power.  I have driven my sons Tesla around a good deal of New Zealand and it honestly was not challenging with regards to range and charging (75KWh battery).  

 

1 hour ago, walrus said:

I own two diesel land cruisers. I am quite happy to have an electric version in future provided two things are dealt with:

 

1. Range. I can currently travel melbourne - sydney without refueling, or Melbourne - broken hill, or broken hill - arkaroola, etc If I can’t have the same range, electric is no use to me.’

 

2. Charging time and available infrastructure. Exactly who is going to provide charging infrastructure in outback Australia and how are they going to do it? Think - ten to twenty camping caravanning or trailer rigs per day requiring 1500km + charges. - and that’s just for arkaroola or innamincka and suchlike.

 

I would say that at this point an EV would not be the ideal car to suit your purposes (but they are coming).  No many cars, whether ICE or EV are suitable for every purpose. I would certainly not drive my old ICE Ford Focus through central Australia.    I also would not drive non stop from Melbourne to Sydney and I imagine most people don't but if that is important then sure stick to ICE until an EV with equivalent performance comes along and even then the choice will most likely be yours for the foreseeable future.

 

The charging infrastructure in many parts of Australia is better than many people think https://myelectriccar.com.au/charge-stations-in-australia/`    It is possible to travel around Australia even central Australia although I do accept that at this stage it requires forward planning so would not suit everyone.  

 

In terms of who is providing charging infrastructure there are quite a few companies as well as the NRMA, even oil companies are starting charging networks  https://www.caltex.com.au/our-solutions/fuels/evie    https://techau.com.au/first-bp-now-shell-are-in-the-electric-vehicle-recharge-game/  Whilst many would consider the network not good enough now the trajectory

 

I don't own an EV but will certainly consider it my my present car dies.    As I have mentioned before my rooftop solar produces a reliable excess of electricity that I sell back to the grid for bugger all, in fact it is enough to drive a Kona EV for 14000km each year essentially for free.

 

 

Picture below is my son and his Tesla at a motorsport event.

 

[kgwilson]

Oil companies and everyone looking forward knows there is no future for ICE vehicles. Yes they will be around for a decade or 2 yet but the developments in EVs is exponential at present. Utes, Trucks, heavy machinery & anything that transports people is in the mix now. It is quicker to go by electric train in most parts of Europe & the UK than to fly or drive now. Transversing the outback has only been possible for the masses since the 70s and only become popular this century. The 1000km EV range has already been broken and that will continue to grow. EV B doubles will begin replacing diesels on the Pacific Highway from next year

 

In the outback you will never run out of fuel with a future EV towing your caravan. The roofs of both will be an integrated highly efficient PVA system recharging batteries as you go and while you stay at your favourite place.

 

The Cheapest EV in NZ now is a MG ZS at $NZ40,000 so they are already becoming affordable for the masses.

 

I won't be around to see it all happen though the change is no different from horses and carts to the ICE revolution last century. There were even organised protests and demonstrations against these new fangled things that were going to destroy their way of life. Ironically the same thing is happening with dinosaur attitudes from some include senior politicians. Those who don't wake up will be discarded to the historical or political dustbin.

[onetrack]

One concern is the sheer number of charging points required when all of Australias fleet is electric. You only have to see the traffic jams at servos now, when fuel is in demand, to realise the numbers of vehicles in total, is absolutely enormous. And when you go to fuel your petrol or diesel vehicle, it only takes 5 mins - an EV requires 1/2 hr at least, to get enough recharge for the next 100 kms or so.

 

I cannot see where any charging point will have the capacity to recharge any more than maybe 30 vehicles. This is a drop in the ocean compared to what is required. The amount of charging stations or points will have to be absolutely enormous. Maybe a charging point at every parking meter might do it - but that requires a massive investment in charging infrastructure.

 

I can see a point where EV takeup will overwhelm the charging network. Yes, a lot of people will have a charge point at home - but they have to get home, first!

 

This is why I think swappable batteries are a must - and it's high time Govts started examining what the future is going to look like, when it comes to EV's and the charging network- and to start setting standards for battery design/shape, charger connection standardisation, and a host of other areas that will start to become EV bottlenecks, unless they are addressed soon.

[RFguy]

which is interesting because as charge / swapout  stations we would be likely to have  the choice of 

GOOD 

BETTER

BEST 

for our swapout batteries

just like an old Tandy / radio shack catalog of the 70s

 

the EV mfrs would have to agree on a form factor ! ROFL

 

it's likely we'd be offered a choice of battery technology/performance. for different money

IE heavier + extended capacity

IE lighter + extended capacity (premium tech) 

IE heavy + basic capacity (older tech) 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by RFguy

[octave]

5 minutes ago, onetrack said:

Yes, a lot of people will have a charge point at home - but they have to get home, first!

 

Other than on road trips there is no need to charge at a station unless you don't have your own charger. My son drives his car into the garage and plugs it in to charge overnight (doesn't need to do this every night) The car then automatically  charges on a low tariff.   Just like in our aircraft we don't always lug around a full tank of fuel but we do manage it.     I cant thin of many occasions when I have driven into at petrol station nearly empty.

 

Norway is well ahead of us in EVs on the road so it is not uncharted territory.   We do tend to try to fit this new technology into our old framework of refueling.   EV drivers don't fill up every Tuesday but they tend to keep it charged at their own "petrol bowers" equivalent 

 

The nature of refueling when out will and is changing. Instead of a petrol station being the only place to refuel this will be able to be done at shopping Centre carparks café restaurants hotels motels etc.

 

 

[facthunter]

Instead of a restaurant and carwash you will have a charge of battery instead with your meal. Nev.

[RFguy]

"charge it to my account" haw haw haw. sorry.

[onetrack]

Octave, the simple problem remains that every EV system supporter merely states that charging points will be everywhere - but the problem remains, that installing that massive charging network is going to cost a fortune.

We've already seen the mind-boggling cost, and cost overruns, with the NBN - where a huge 120 yr old electric network had to be ripped up and replaced with a fibre optic network.

But the copper phone network was already largely installed in our infrastructure - a charging network needs to be added to our infrastructure. 

I could well imagine the disruption caused by ripping up every shopper carpark to install a sizeable charging network - along with transformers, and all the other associated apparatus needed as well.

I think a lot of thought and planning needs to be put into this setting out of a charging network, so it proceeds with smoothness and integrated planning, and doesn't cause major disruption to many areas.