alf jessup Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Something must have gone seriously wrong to leave that impact mark.[ATTACH=full]49174[/ATTACH] I agree with you pylon Paddocks don't usually have impact marks in them like that with without an aircraft near by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 And the experts start speculating again, amazing how armchairs give expertise without even seeing the evidence. What is the point of having an enquiry when you guys have it all sussed. Remember someone is dead, your opinions matter not at all because you dont know untill the evidence is in. Well robinsm Yes a pilot has passed which is sad When do you think we will find out the cause? ATSB won't be investigating so we won't know from them RAA hasn't released information on any past fatals that I know of including the fatality involving my previously owned trike a number of years back so I won't hold my breath waiting for that Maybe us armchair experts try to figure it out ourselves because no one else is going to tell us 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I make no comment on this incident, But I saw the aircraft on the day of it,s delivery to the Oaks. It came in touched down and stopped within three or four lengths of its size, Nose almost touching the ground as it braked to a stop!. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 You just want white space and no lessons at all?Unless ATSB step in there will be no report. What lessons, we dont know what happenned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Well robinsmYes a pilot has passed which is sad When do you think we will find out the cause? ATSB won't be investigating so we won't know from them RAA hasn't released information on any past fatals that I know of including the fatality involving my previously owned trike a number of years back so I won't hold my breath waiting for that Maybe us armchair experts try to figure it out ourselves because no one else is going to tell us Figuring it out is all very well but what is the evidence, who serviced it. was there as medical issue, how long is a piece of string? Any assumptions you arrive at will be of necessity flawed and possible plain wrong. RAA Aus may provide the answer if they find it out otherwise...? Specualtion helps no one and creates rumours that can be at the best wrong and at the worst damaging in the extreme. Common sense and INFORMED comment seems to be the order of the day, but hey, what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I make no comment on this incident, But I saw the aircraft on the day of it,s delivery to the Oaks.It came in touched down and stopped within three or four lengths of its size, Nose almost touching the ground as it braked to a stop!. spacesailor And What? My Xair had the same type of braking performance, I dont get your point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I think as pilots and armchair experts as we would like to call us would like to know what happend. And turbo is right we will never find what happend to this pilot and his aircraft. So we make something up...not very mature or intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Only assumption I'm making is it hit the ground very hard going by the impact marks and where the aircraft ended up as photos don't seem to lie As to why it did this I'd never even consider the reason as no one will ever know for certain other than the deceased pilot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shafs64 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 So we make something up...not very mature or intelligent. what are we making up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 As pilots we all ask ourselves, what traps are out there awaiting us? We do not wish to pre empt any informed conclusions (conclusions which might help us avoid a similar fate). However, as was pointed out, we are not privy to the facts. And it is unlikely that we will ever hear the facts . Unfortunately for us the actual facts revealed by the official investigation will never be shared with us. So we are left with speculation. Our speculation is pure guesswork but it is all we have available to try to work out how to prevent such a tragedy happening to us. My condolences go out to family and friends of the pilot. He did not go out to have this happen, and he surely did all he could to prevent it. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bats Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 So we make something up...not very mature or intelligent. The age old debate; probably best to step away from the discussion if you're too close to the personalities involved. Picking fights with other members who are conducting a perfectly civil and reasonable discussion seldom ends well and certainly does nothing to damp down speculation. 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 pylon500, I disagree with your interpretation of the impact trail as you have depicted it. The short line crossing the animal track would, I think, be something unrelated to the impact. It appears to me that the aircraft impacted the ground close to where those two lines intersect, but was travelling away from that point at an approximate angle of 30 - 45 degrees. It would be necessary to know if the surface sloped from left to right of the photograph. I would surmise that the ground speed at impact was low, given the short post-impact run. Also I suggest that the aircraft was moving generally horizontally to the surface at impact, ie not spinning in. Perhaps the aircraft was landing under the control of the pilot, but hit the high side of the trackway and flipped over. A possibly successful force landing ruined by invisible terrain features. OME 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 pylon500,I disagree with your interpretation of the impact trail as you have depicted it. The short line crossing the animal track would, I think, be something unrelated to the impact. It appears to me that the aircraft impacted the ground close to where those two lines intersect, but was travelling away from that point at an approximate angle of 30 - 45 degrees. It would be necessary to know if the surface sloped from left to right of the photograph. I would surmise that the ground speed at impact was low, given the short post-impact run. Also I suggest that the aircraft was moving generally horizontally to the surface at impact, ie not spinning in. Perhaps the aircraft was landing under the control of the pilot, but hit the high side of the trackway and flipped over. A possibly successful force landing ruined by invisible terrain features. OME So I went back and had another look at the pictures, and the video footage (which didn't run the first time?). In the close ups on the video footage, I'm fairly sure now that the line across the animal track is definitely the impact mark of the entire leading edge. In some views, you can almost make out the impact marks of the wheels and the nose impact point is quite obvious. The fact the wreckage appears to the right of perpendicular to the leading edge impact line would imply some rotation at the time of impact. No tire marks are evident leading to the wreckage. The distance travelled by the wreckage does equate to a low horizontal velocity, however, the amount of destruction is indicative of a reasonably high speed, more likely in the vertical axis. Beyond that, the picture, and it's quality, are insufficient to postulate further, although the brownish triangle shape spreading from the primary impact point is possibly the spray pattern of a rupturing fuel tank (I think the Fishers have fibreglass tanks like Drifters?), which has killed the grass. None of these observations can definitively state the cause of the accident, only surmise the events post impact. 3 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I was at the Oaks once and went for a fly in a drifter with a nice guy nammed Sonny...can someone advise if this is the one and same...very sorry to hear about this accident and my thoughts go out for the pilot, family and friends, RIP and may you continually fly the skies for ever more. As a side note, you are right Robinsm, and you know I have a lot of time for you and what you do to help this site...your friend will be missed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Very sad , condolences to his family and friends Stay safe everyone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I`ve just had a good look at the Sydney Morning Herald video and it appears, I repeat appears to me that the lines pylon500 is referring to are the leading edge of the wing! If that is correct, the aircraft has impacted the ground with a very steep nose down attitude. Frank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 And the experts start speculating again, amazing how armchairs give expertise without even seeing the evidence. What is the point of having an enquiry when you guys have it all sussed. Remember someone is dead, your opinions matter not at all because you dont know untill the evidence is in. What was the caution for on a previous comment...did you not like the truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I`ve just had a good look at the Sydney Morning Herald video and it appears, I repeat appears to me that the lines pylon500 is referring to are the leading edge of the wing! If that is correct, the aircraft has impacted the ground with a very steep nose down attitude.Frank. Franco That's my take on it also As to why? That will more than likely never be known to us mere plebs as no one ever tells us the findings Sooner the ATSB starts investigating RAA accidents the better in my opinion but that is highly unlikely due to budget constraints 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just a observation on the video...you can see distinctly the leading edge of the wing mark at the impact site. This would suggest to me the aircraft was inverted as it hit the ground as the length of the mark of the leading edge is pretty much the full length of the wing and that is the only way you would see the whole LE mark like that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hargraves Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Loss of control for whatever reason, engine on or off, very sad to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 as a pilot I am very saddened to hear of this - RIP m8 and forever slip the surly bonds with blue skies as a Drifter driver I would REALLY like to know what happened here - and we don't need the ATSB to sort this out for us look at the comments by some of the posters on this thread and you will undoubtedly consider there are individuals who could look closely at tragedies like this I believe RAAus should spend considerable resources to develop a system whereby members with the required skills and experienced are officially allocated to RAAus accidents/incidents in their State I for one would be happy to contribute financially to this - we would all benefit by such a system BP 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I didn't view the video. I only went on the still from it. I concede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soleair Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Why are the results of any official enquiry, & their conclusions, not published down the track? They are in UK & USA, where no doubt they are felt to be of benefit to the flying community. Has anyone tried accessing these reports under FOI? I can understand the respect for the family of the deceased, but after 6 months or so any findings are unlikely to make national news, so would not impact on the loved ones. But they certainly (in my view) should be released into the aviation community, or available online for the asking. It is, after all, an enquiry to establish the cause of the accident. And who would benefit most from knowing that, if not fellow aviators? Bruce 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Why are the results of any official enquiry, & their conclusions, not published down the track?They are in UK & USA, where no doubt they are felt to be of benefit to the flying community. Has anyone tried accessing these reports under FOI? I can understand the respect for the family of the deceased, but after 6 months or so any findings are unlikely to make national news, so would not impact on the loved ones. But they certainly (in my view) should be released into the aviation community, or available online for the asking. It is, after all, an enquiry to establish the cause of the accident. And who would benefit most from knowing that, if not fellow aviators? Bruce Legal process; ATSB have the necessary exemptions which the State Police apparently don't have. As we've seen above, there is also pressure to cover up these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazzaM Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I was at the Oaks once and went for a fly in a drifter with a nice guy nammed Sonny...can someone advise if this is the one and same...very sorry to hear about this accident and my thoughts go out for the pilot, family and friends, RIP and may you continually fly the skies for ever more.As a side note, you are right Robinsm, and you know I have a lot of time for you and what you do to help this site...your friend will be missed Unfortunately, yes. A good mate of mine gone. Nice of 7 news to ask permission to use my video of us flying together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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