Jerry_Atrick Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 These are all risk mitigation measures.. As an employer, I cannot be expected to enforce every minute of the day social distancing - if employees go out for lunch, I can't do it there. I cannot be expected to provide someone to go around after everyone at all times and disinfect everything they have touched before another employee comes around. The app aint perfect, but it is another weapon in the arsenal I can use to keep my employees safe - they may not be symptomatic yet, be tested because they have been within 1.5m of someone who has tested positive and if they come back positive, that is one less worry I have,... It's a question of risk - you do your assessment and work out what works for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 The employers are already supposed to be keeping employees apart and disinfecting regularly. If they were following the correct processes the app would be redundant anyway. There are many jobs where close contact is a part of the job, mine for example. Lifting the lockdown will not mean a return to normality. People need to start to feel confident that the are unlikely to get covid. The first wave of this disease was somewhat contained by the lockdown but there will be a second wave as in other countries. We need to catch and trace new infections early. From time to time citizens of a country are asked to make some kind of contribution, in the past this may have been going to war as an extreme example. Here what we are being asked for has potential benefits for the individual but also for society as a whole. I am aware that some people dont have smart phones or live in an isolated location. Whilst 100% would be good it is still projected to do some good at a lower rate. I want to get back to work and my employer wants me to get back to work but being in a category to puts me at far greater risk I am just not willing to go back unless all steps that can be taken have taken. Lifting lockdown will not solve much once the figures begin to climb again and people begin to self isolate. We have to throw everything we can at this illness otherwise it will be an ongoing hit to the economy until a vaccine is found, although of course the anti vax mob will think that is a government plot. The benefits of tracking down infections before people are symptoms are obvious. The benefits of mass testing are obvious. The privacy issues seem trivial and no practical examples have been presented here. If I had anxieties about this app I would be ditching about 20 other apps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aro Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 45 cases in the Melbourne meat processing plant are reportedly because a person who was infected back in March said they had not been to work, and so no followup was done on the workplace. You can see why an app to automatically record contacts would be useful. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 These are all risk mitigation measures.. As an employer, I cannot be expected to enforce every minute of the day social distancing - if employees go out for lunch, I can't do it there. I cannot be expected to provide someone to go around after everyone at all times and disinfect everything they have touched before another employee comes around. The app aint perfect, but it is another weapon in the arsenal I can use to keep my employees safe - they may not be symptomatic yet, be tested because they have been within 1.5m of someone who has tested positive and if they come back positive, that is one less worry I have,... It's a question of risk - you do your assessment and work out what works for you... In Australia a Company has a duty of care to provide a safe workplace. There is already legislation in place to give them certain powers to ensure that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I cannot be expected to enforce every minute of the day social distancing - if employees go out for lunch, I can't do it there. I cannot be expected to provide someone to go around after everyone at all times and disinfect everything they have touched before another employee comes around. Where I work both of these things are expected and done. If there are situations where social distancing is impossible then they will enforce the use of PPE. They have made it clear that if one person on one shift tests positive then that whole shift will be quarantined. They have a three hour window between shifts and the workplace and tools are disinfected at the beginning and end of each shift. Tradies are not allowed physical contact with office workers and vice versa. They have taken it very seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Where I work both of these things are expected and done. If there are situations where social distancing is impossible then they will enforce the use of PPE. They have made it clear that if one person on one shift tests positive then that whole shift will be quarantined. They have a three hour window between shifts and the workplace and tools are disinfected at the beginning and end of each shift. Tradies are not allowed physical contact with office workers and vice versa. They have taken it very seriously. Still cant be done in every occupation. I just heard that the meat processing plant outbreak was detected when a worker with a severed thumb was taken to Sunshine hospital where he later started to develop symptoms. If his exposure had been detected before he became symptomatic it would have save many new infections. This is the whole point of the app, we need to identify potential infections before they become symptomatic. The mother of one of my music students tested positive yesterday. Luckily for me I am working online at the moment. More than likely she will have infected some of her family members. In this case knowing before it becomes symptomatic would be advantageous. I find it hard to understand the resistance to the app given what it could possibly do to reduce the spread and reduce the length of this disruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) Yes you do find it hard, hard that you can't accept that it's VOLUNTARY and others have opinions!! Oh & rights! Edited May 6, 2020 by Flightrite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 No, @octave has said [edit] why he thinks its a good idea to use it and [/edit] he finds it hard to understand the reasoning as to why people don't want to use the app.. Rather than a gratuitous excerise of "rights" and opinions, why don't you explain why you don't want to use the app so Octave can understand? We are all ears (well, eyes)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 No, @octave has said [edit] why he thinks its a good idea to use it and [/edit] he finds it hard to understand the reasoning as to why people don't want to use the app.. Rather than a gratuitous excerise of "rights" and opinions, why don't you explain why you don't want to use the app so Octave can understand? We are all ears (well, eyes)... It sure bugs you guys!?Entertaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 It sure bugs you guys!?Entertaining? Bugs me? No amuses me yes. Also I am always open to be swayed by a persuasive and factual argument. Let me assure you that as I have constantly said I acknowledge your right to not download it and it should not be mandatory but this does not mean find your argument persuasive.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_Atrick Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 @Flightrite - can't provide a rationale argument? Doesn't bug me.. illustrates a lot, though... I do Miss Flight Bhindi - when is he going to return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightrite Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 H @Flightrite - can't provide a rationale argument? Doesn't bug me.. illustrates a lot, though... I do Miss Flight Bhindi - when is he going to return? haha I love it! ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Those with privacy issues would obviously not own a plane with mode s transponder, everyone can see what your doing.?? https://avweb.acemlna.com/lt.php?s=785fc21e3b4bcd3a08bb6b57e25ed0bb&i=341A365A3A6427 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Doesn't it appear that more testing is a good idea? Get the political point scoring out of ALL this out of all this and we might start to get somewhere. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I've just realised that I don't care if the bloody pubs never reopen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 F,H. I have just had the test, it,s almost Painful. I think the app is much less traumatic to have your phone Take that stick ( swab ) test than your nose. So another will be downloading the APP, even after I read it can be used for tracking. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I miss my JAZZ Pub.Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Bluetooth has a maximum range of about 30 metres, more commonly only 10 and has no link to geographical location so the APP can't on its own be used for tracking. Your phone on the other hand IS tracked by your Telco by triangulation from Cellphone towers. The main reason is to keep you connected to the strongest signal so you phone conversation will not be disrupted, but it can be used to locate you. This is used in missing person & criminal cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Interesting to see which MP's have not installed the app. Barnaby, Pauline, the greens, one nation and a few others. ABC News: Easing coronavirus restrictions depends on the uptake of the Government's tracing app, so has your MP downloaded it?. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-07/has-your-mp-downloaded-the-coronavirus-tracing-app/12215092 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) The biggest single problem with apps is their security. They need to have their security independently tested - regularly - to ensure it meets all the requirements to defeat hackers. An app that has been rushed into production, as the COVID-19 app has, is bound to be flawed. It's been produced too fast to carry out proper, lengthy testing against hacking. There are plenty of apps that have inadequate security features. Thus, hackers can intercept any information travelling between your phone and the app website. Hackers dream of accessing huge databases and peoples personal details. Even email addresses are a hugely saleable item on the criminal web. Lots of wi-fi sites are not secure - particularly public ones. I refuse point-blank to use public wi-fi, unless it uses WPA or WPA2 security with a strong password. Many passwords used by public networks are very weak. Many people set their phone settings to automatically connect to public wi-fi networks. This is a mistake, it leaves you wide open to hackers. Early on in my smartphone ownership, someone hacked into my insecure wi-fi and stole a heap of my data allowance. It was a good lesson. It could've been a lot worse. Many people use the same passwords across multiple sites, so when a hacker finds a password, it's a goldmine to them. The WWW is a breeding ground for all the scumbags under the sun. Then of course, we have to understand that "trusted" people, those working in "security", cannot really be trusted, anyway. Human weaknesses being what they are, "trusted" people go rogue and destroy even the best security arrangements. Police are regularly caught misusing Police databases - which are supposedly 100% secure. If someone gets into financial trouble, usually via gambling, they are a target for corruption. They then exchange access to secure areas for their desperately-needed money. An IT worker gets narky with management, and sells the "secure" database of the company to "get even". OMCG's are notorious for inserting "associates" (usually easily-manipulated women) into State Vehicle Registration Depts. The OCMG's then utilise the associate to deliver supposedly secure vehicle registration information to them. The bottom line is the app is produced by humans, but crims utilise all the best and latest technology - bots, AI, and a dozen other high-level techniques, to hack into websites, apps and company databases. They never stop looking for that supposedly "secure" gold that will deliver them huge rewards in the form of saleable personal information, blackmail and extortion. https://blog.se.works/how-often-are-mobile-apps-hacked Edited May 6, 2020 by onetrack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I am in favour of the aims/intentions of the health tracing "App" and complexly cynical about our collective Governments integrity/honesty. So on balance will not be loading it. Most of you will be aware of our Governments steady slide into secrecy, journalistic control and punishment of whistle blowers - I have no intention of giving them an additional tool to assist this trend 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Free public WiFi sites are disasters waiting to happen even those with supposedly secure passwords as they are available to anyone anyway. Always have the ability to connect to any WiFi site turned OFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Not sure the Covid app has any data worth stealing Just list of Bluetooth connections phone numbers Telemarketers have these already it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Not sure the Covid app has any data worth stealing Just list of Bluetooth connections phone numbers Telemarketers have these already it seems That's correct. People here are confused about what bluetooth is vs what wireless is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 People can use the app over a wireless network. If that wireless network is not secure, the phone user is open to being hacked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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