Ozkosh at Narromine

[rankamateur]

I was watching him on Ozrunways coming home and saw him doing orbits over yours and reg's place..texted him and thats what he was doing....rubbing it in hahahahaha

Well the rub was extremely effective, I was working outside and got the full show, gave me plenty of time to be envious.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

I too was there and enjoyed myself thoroughly , a great event , great atmosphere , and great fellow aviators, however I must mention an incident that happened on arrival around Friday lunchtime. I was traveling with a friend ( I am saying this constructively and by no means making a complaint about any of the hard working and generous volunteers that gave their time up to make Naromine the success that it was) Anyway getting back to the incident.On aproach and about six or seven miles north of the field, with about seven or eight planes inbound at that time there was a call to Naromine requesting a straight in aproach for 29 , I had guesed that it was a fast plane from his distance out and his arrival time however I can't remember what the responder said in return as it was not all that clear , anyway we and the plane that had asked for the straight approach were all five minutes from the circuit.

 

On arrival at the circuit and just about to join cross wind the other plane called again asking if he was okay to come straight in and once again I did not understand the call from the field except that it was positive, the pilot then did an inbound call saying he was two miles out , not two mile final

 

Just after turning downwind we ie. my friend in front and me behind were requested to do a wide base, now I must tell you at this time that my friend who came to Australia quite some time ago from Europe who both speaks and understands english very well was struggling to decipher the unclear calls plus as you well know the amount of radio traffic from arrivals was incredible . Whilst looking downwind I could see the approaching twin on long final just as my friend with his eyes now on the freshold turned base , after some more radio chatter he was asked to go round by the chap on the ground which he did , incident over.

 

Now what are your thoughts on this , I belive the volunteers on the ground worked their guts out and were under tremendous pressure on the day however perhaps they might need to be much better briefed and trained before the event to be more authoritive with unwise requests.

 

Do you think as I do that perhaps there should be some rules put in place for these big high traffic events such as not allowing time consuming straight in approaches also we as pilots need to be aware that in these high traffic situations that we might think outside the box and think of the other seven or eight pilots in close proximity who will be as nervous as hell about approaching what could be their first circuit into a big event such as Naromine

Maybe consider sending a letter to the organisers so that they can be aware of the matter at thier debrief / review and may lead to an edit of procedures and pilot information at next years event.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

I too was there and enjoyed myself thoroughly , a great event , great atmosphere , and great fellow aviators, however I must mention an incident that happened on arrival around Friday lunchtime. I was traveling with a friend ( I am saying this constructively and by no means making a complaint about any of the hard working and generous volunteers that gave their time up to make Naromine the success that it was) Anyway getting back to the incident.On aproach and about six or seven miles north of the field, with about seven or eight planes inbound at that time there was a call to Naromine requesting a straight in aproach for 29 , I had guesed that it was a fast plane from his distance out and his arrival time however I can't remember what the responder said in return as it was not all that clear , anyway we and the plane that had asked for the straight approach were all five minutes from the circuit.

 

On arrival at the circuit and just about to join cross wind the other plane called again asking if he was okay to come straight in and once again I did not understand the call from the field except that it was positive, the pilot then did an inbound call saying he was two miles out , not two mile final

 

Just after turning downwind we ie. my friend in front and me behind were requested to do a wide base, now I must tell you at this time that my friend who came to Australia quite some time ago from Europe who both speaks and understands english very well was struggling to decipher the unclear calls plus as you well know the amount of radio traffic from arrivals was incredible . Whilst looking downwind I could see the approaching twin on long final just as my friend with his eyes now on the freshold turned base , after some more radio chatter he was asked to go round by the chap on the ground which he did , incident over.

 

Now what are your thoughts on this , I belive the volunteers on the ground worked their guts out and were under tremendous pressure on the day however perhaps they might need to be much better briefed and trained before the event to be more authoritive with unwise requests.

 

Do you think as I do that perhaps there should be some rules put in place for these big high traffic events such as not allowing time consuming straight in approaches also we as pilots need to be aware that in these high traffic situations that we might think outside the box and think of the other seven or eight pilots in close proximity who will be as nervous as hell about approaching what could be their first circuit into a big event such as Naromine

From the pilot information sheet for Ozkosh.

"The Unicom operator will advise known traffic and runway in use. Additional information may be provided on request. Normal CTAF procedures will apply."

 

I would have thought the Unicom operator would have to be very careful to not become a defacto air traffic controller. A straight in approach with the circuit full may be a difficult thing to do.

 

 

[apm]

I too was there and enjoyed myself thoroughly , a great event , great atmosphere , and great fellow aviators, however I must mention an incident that happened on arrival around Friday lunchtime. I was traveling with a friend ( I am saying this constructively and by no means making a complaint about any of the hard working and generous volunteers that gave their time up to make Naromine the success that it was) Anyway getting back to the incident.On aproach and about six or seven miles north of the field, with about seven or eight planes inbound at that time there was a call to Naromine requesting a straight in aproach for 29 , I had guesed that it was a fast plane from his distance out and his arrival time however I can't remember what the responder said in return as it was not all that clear , anyway we and the plane that had asked for the straight approach were all five minutes from the circuit.

 

On arrival at the circuit and just about to join cross wind the other plane called again asking if he was okay to come straight in and once again I did not understand the call from the field except that it was positive, the pilot then did an inbound call saying he was two miles out , not two mile final

 

Just after turning downwind we ie. my friend in front and me behind were requested to do a wide base, now I must tell you at this time that my friend who came to Australia quite some time ago from Europe who both speaks and understands english very well was struggling to decipher the unclear calls plus as you well know the amount of radio traffic from arrivals was incredible . Whilst looking downwind I could see the approaching twin on long final just as my friend with his eyes now on the freshold turned base , after some more radio chatter he was asked to go round by the chap on the ground which he did , incident over.

 

Now what are your thoughts on this , I belive the volunteers on the ground worked their guts out and were under tremendous pressure on the day however perhaps they might need to be much better briefed and trained before the event to be more authoritive with unwise requests.

 

Do you think as I do that perhaps there should be some rules put in place for these big high traffic events such as not allowing time consuming straight in approaches also we as pilots need to be aware that in these high traffic situations that we might think outside the box and think of the other seven or eight pilots in close proximity who will be as nervous as hell about approaching what could be their first circuit into a big event such as Naromine

Kenny, yourself and your freind need to complete incident reports. From your description the twin should have given way and gone around, not your friend. CTAF rules apply. Next time that pilot pulls that stunt the result may end up diferently, on your conscience if you dont report.

Andrew

 

 

[derekliston]

I flew over on Thursday, had a great day Friday, but chose to leave on Saturday morning rather than Sunday as planned due to South Australia's weather forecast. Glad I did! Today's weather here certainly would have made it difficult to say the least. Two other upper Spencer Gulf flyers who attended made the same decision. We had 30 knots on the nose as far as Cobar, but it progressively dropped off after that. We listened to the radio traffic while on this leg and it was non-stop arrivals, so Saturday must have been huge.My impression was that it reminded me of the early Natflys at Narromine - the place was just buzzing and the freedom to wander amongst all the aircraft in an easily accessible space was welcome. The catering by the Aero club, the Gliding club, Rotary and private vendors was excellent and affordable, the trade displays were well presented and well attended, and the showers were steaming hot no matter how well used. The two forums I attended were well worthwhile. Even the brown snake we chased away from between aircraft must have been having a good look!

Well done organizers, we have been missing an annual event of this calibre.

Really glad you had a steaming hot shower. That was not our experience. Only one day out of six we had an acceptable shower, the rest of the time it fluctuated between ice water and scalding, other than that, brilliant weekend.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Really glad you had a steaming hot shower. That was not our experience. Only one day out of six we had an acceptable shower, the rest of the time it fluctuated between ice water and scalding, other than that, brilliant weekend.

Really glad you had a steaming hot shower. That was not our experience. Only one day out of six we had an acceptable shower, the rest of the time it fluctuated between ice water and scalding, other than that, brilliant weekend.

I timed my shower brilliantly: while there was a long queue at the barbecue the showers were nearly empty- and hot.

 

 

[jetjr]

Kenny, we saw that incident and discussed at the time. We could not hear ctaf radio calls.

 

Main point is that the system worked, one aircraft went around and there was no near miss.

 

A straight in approach is possibly not a great idea but within normal rules for the CTAF and that can't change for the event.

 

If a call wasn't clear it should be asked to repeated, not sure it was.

 

Our debate was if it were safer for a large quick twin to complete a circuit with a bunch of mixed aircraft or a direct approach...still not sure

 

But we all agreed aircraft in circuit have right of way

 

What we also saw was perhaps 75% of aircraft landed upfield of the threshold markers or the keys.

 

Other point was aircraft not doing what was instructed or not having a working radio, or a really crap one - surprising number to me at least

 

Only one incident from maybe 400 landings isn't a bad result.

 

 

[Harina]

Hi, I was that friend,the communication was very confusing ,you hear the radio calls from the whole area and regularly it gets all mixed up and you can't hear anything.

 

Maybe we should get a designated CTAF only for Narromine when the show is on, starting from 10 mile out.

 

I agree with jetjr,one incident on 400 landings is not bad,but only trying to improve the system.

 

I really enjoyed the fly in,it was great.

 

 

[JG3]

Only one incident from maybe 400 landings isn't a bad result.

Only takes one to be a disaster.......

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hi, I was that friend,the communication was very confusing ,you hear the radio calls from the whole area and regularly it gets all mixed up and you can't hear anything.Maybe we should get a designated CTAF only for Narromine when the show is on, starting from 10 mile out.

I agree with jetjr,one incident on 400 landings is not bad,but only trying to improve the system.

 

I really enjoyed the fly in,it was great.

From time to time I've made comments on the the need for pilots to get radio up to standard and in correct phraseology, and I've said the reason for that is that a pilot who may live his life with a maximum of two aircraft in his circuit may think see and be seen does it all and it's BS to worry about radio procedures as long as the other guy knows what you mean, but when you come to the City its a whole different ball game.

While Narromine was a great result, and not deserving of any criticism, it compares to the 644 movements per day, 365 days of the year at Moorabbin.

 

Your experience, along with radios, even on relatively new aircraft, which are not transmitting correctly pose a new experience for the country flyer in a busy environment.

 

That's when making only the correct transmission, using the correct phrases and waiting for a clear spot before you transmit makes it so much easier for everyone.

 

Even if someone's radio is on the way out and you can only identify syllables, if he's using the correct phrase in the correct place, you'll know where he is and what his intentions are, and that reduces your workload and stress level.

 

 

[c722352]

 

A long bumpy trip down and just the same coming home but well worth the effort well done Narromine.

 

 

[jetjr]

Theres talk of combining Narromine into Dubbo Frequency - then youll have RPT on there as well and things will get much harder to run a fly in Id guess - its out for comment with CASA/ASA? currently

 

As as far as I can tell its because certain RPT have company policies regarding distances and frequency monitoring.

 

It isnt Moorabbin and most are glad of that - its one of the big features of the location.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I would have thought everyone would have been using the CTAF until 10 miles then the event would have had a separate Unicom frequency for inbound

 

 

[Kenny]

Hi Turbo

 

You have said clearly what I was alluding to if radio communication is short,sharp,precise and to the point it usually is quite easy to fill in the blanks.

 

I guess I should have been more proactive and spoken directly to the incomming twin and dissused his intentions so everyone in circuit was aware of him but it was hard to get a break in transmissions, with the extra radio chatter possability creating even more confusion and at the time one thinks that perhaps it is only me who is having this problem

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hi TurboYou have said clearly what I was alluding to if radio communication is short,sharp,precise and to the point it usually is quite easy to fill in the blanks.

 

I guess I should have been more proactive and spoken directly to the incomming twin and dissused his intentions so everyone in circuit was aware of him but it was hard to get a break in transmissions, with the extra radio chatter possability creating even more confusion and at the time one thinks that perhaps it is only me who is having this problem

You did well in the circumstances; people who call straight in approaches really foul up the circuit.

 

 

[frank marriott]

I would have thought everyone would have been using the CTAF until 10 miles

Outside 10nm/10minutes I would expect you to be on area not CTAF (or monitor both with suitable radio equipment).

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

WEll I do the local CTAF and area but a few airfields have a airfield CTAF different to the local...where we fly anyway. 126.700 is almost everywhere in QLD except from 10nm you then flick over to the airfield CTAF if they have one. Gympie and Kilcoy and almost everywhere in SE Qld is 126.7 except for specific airfields like YCAB/ Caloundra and Redcliffe and Watts bridge almost everywhere else is 126.700. I havent flown that deep or even looked at NSW frequencies as yet

 

 

[Kenny]

Hands up all those who use area frequency constantly

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

no will listen on area but always the CTAF or local airfield CTAF..The beauty of a dual watch radio

 

 

[apm]

Hands up all those who use area frequency constantly

unless an airfield has a published freq. area is used.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

unless an airfield has a published freq. area is used.

Use area frequency only if the airfield is not marked on any aviation chart.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I guess I should have been more proactive and spoken directly to the incomming twin and dissused his intentions so everyone in circuit was aware of him but it was hard to get a break in transmissions...

Each time I attend a Fly-In it's difficult to find a gap in which to make even the minimum radio calls. Worse, my first two calls were cut over by other aircraft, so I presumed nobody heard me. After that, due to radio traffic and workload, there was no opportunity to repeat those calls. As a result, I elected to make a "turning final" call to ensure other aircraft actually knew I was there. That's the worst time to be distracted from the task at hand and as a result my approach was not pretty.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Hands up all those who use area frequency constantly

Well, I do. Whenever I'm not on CTAF for a field I'm approaching, I ALWAYS listen on the area frequency. Anyone who doesn't is dicing with trouble. I have been called a number of times by the area controller to alert me of conflicting traffic. If I wasn't on the frequency, I wouldn't have known someone else was heading my way until they are possibly too close. I also got a call when I somehow had the wrong code set on my transponder. Finally, the controllers can alert you if you're about to VCA as often happens in my local area with Amberley airspace.

 

 

[Downunder]

Use area frequency only if the airfield is not marked on any aviation chart.

I was basically told that by a CASA safety rep.....

 

 

[turboplanner]

Each time I attend a Fly-In it's difficult to find a gap in which to make even the minimum radio calls. Worse, my first two calls were cut over by other aircraft, so I presumed nobody heard me. After that, due to radio traffic and workload, there was no opportunity to repeat those calls. As a result, I elected to make a "turning final" call to ensure other aircraft actually knew I was there. That's the worst time to be distracted from the task at hand and as a result my approach was not pretty.

At least you tried, but there's no fix except RAA bringing the radio culture up to standard; it's stressful trying to make a critical turn point call right up to and through the actual turn becaise there are no gaps. At 400 movements for the day there should have been plenty of gaps.