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We can say certification and design would never allow such a situation. But history of the 737 max and self certification by Boeing with minimal federal oversight has allowed the seemingly impossible to happen. Until the final report and one that's accepted by the European safety authorities, we can not be sure. I do not have a great deal of faith in the USA been a beacon of safety over profit, esp given the Trump cuts. This is India's first full modern investigation into a crash and in a country with known compliance issues, as such we need to wait and see. They may do a great job or they may not. Question? Does the 787 have a single FADEC for both engines? Is it not possible the FADEC is the culprit? Computers are never completely failsafe. To openly speculate about pilot suicide whilst possible does the poor families a great disservice and pilots in general. It also shifts the focus away from technical matters that need to be exhaustively tested. I remember everyone blaming the Pilots for the Max 737 crashes and Boeing happy to blame them, even after the second crash. We can desktop cowboy all we want but we don't know what happened.

Beautiful flight to Bairnsdale last week. Family stuff till today. Now patiently waiting for the weather to improve to fly home. Don’t think it will be for a couple of days though.

Actually, I have the PERFECT wife. She has been happy to ‘tolerate’ and partially fund 3 aircraft builds; 2 aircraft restorations; the building of one 12m sailing catamaran, and she hates shopping with a vengeance (although when she does do any shopping her starting point with a salesperson is to start and end with the most expensive option). Since my retirement 15 years ago she continues to bring in more funds (which she mostly spends on dogs and anti-animal cruelty organisations). Her dismay with me keeping the Corby is that it is the sort of aeroplane that tempts one to do what one shouldn’t, particularly as one gets old. Besides, she still stores her Ducati racing motorbikes under one of my aircraft which she hasn’t raced since being pregnant with our first born who is now in her 40s. Which is understandable because she’s got Buckley’s chance of fitting into her size 8 one piece racing leathers. I do admit that I’m having difficulty convincing her of the merits of building a 2 person submarine and/or an airship.

Hello Headwind… Operating the brake and yoke are the least of your flying worries… I fly a Jabiru 230 D…If you actually want to get some where, the 230 has the range and speed of a lot of GA aircraft, with a very generous weight limit.. I recently undertook a trip with a friend who flys a Diamond..He said “ I cruise at 120knts’, I replied, so do I. He had to stop to refuel, I could have reached our destination, without stopping.. I really like my aeroplane..

You can replace the oring. Need to obtain correct one from an aircraft maintenance organisation. If you choose to replace the valve then you need the correct thread, there are several similar looking threads in use. Take your valve to the your value to the maintenance shop and they will advise.

Like any bloke, I enjoy the feel of getting pantyhose off. 😄

I can't wait, to see the rush by a bunch of blokey pilots, to obtain their size in pantyhose! 😄

I hate flying in boots or heavy shoes. We do have a heater in our plane, rarely use it though. And flew the last one for many years before having a heater installed. For me pantyhose or merino thermals tucked in to heatwarmer brand socks works for me. It was -3 degrees at 9,000’ today flying over the ranges to Bairnsdale and my feet and legs were fine.

It may just need to be cleaned, buy 1 new one and work on the leaky one as a spare. I'm amazed the other brand used for wing tanks are plated steel and that type once rust had started were not fixable. Who'd have thought to use steel as the best material for parts that are sliding together and their one job is to collect water ready for draining. I changed to the all SS version no more issues but for the other locations I use those brass Curtis and they are the best. The rubber is important for preventing the metal parts from snapping together and on some designs this is enough to break the retainer off and loose the plunger.

I saw a C-180 where the bird went back to the Mainspar. Over Griffith in a Beech A-36 I only just missed a Large wedgetail at 8000 ft Seemed as though it was asleep in a thermal. They will easily go through most light aircraft's windscreens. Nev

After 30+ years in the computer industry... 'Cannot Occur' is not something I can agree with The coincidental errors occur with usually the most inconvenient timing

The people who dream up these scenarios have obviously never studied up on the actual design and construction of the B787 systems. The HPSOV's are solenoid-actuated valves, held in their last-actuated position by spring-pressure detents. It's not possible for a "cracked solder joint" to shut off the fuel to the engines. It requires ELECTRICAL actuation for the HPSOV's to move from any one position to the other. If the electrical current flow ceases, the HPSOV stays in its previous position. This is what Roundsounds is talking about, the amount of "what-ifs" that go into the design of these systems, before they can be certified to be used in commercial, passenger transport aircraft. I would opine it's likely not even possible for a short-circuit in the fuel cutoff switching circuitry to activate a HPSOV from open to shut. The engine ECU logic would examine the electrical messaging and determine whether the signal was false or true, by matching the actual fuel cutoff switch position. Of course, if the circuitry close to the HPSOV was shorted (between the ECU and the HPSOV), then I would imagine there COULD be an unintended valve actuation. But I'll wager the Boeing engineers considered that angle as well, and have done all they could to prevent that happening. This is UNINTENDED, INSTANT engine shutdown we are talking here, it is something that the entire aircraft design would centre around, not happening. But an INTENDED, HPSOV actuation, is going to go through to the engine instantly, it is not designed to be intercepted by either the FADEC or the engine ECU.

As you may have noticed, I asked Ian to add an Electric Aircaft category in the Aircraft Section. While checking Wikipedia for aircraft to include in the profiles, I came across a List of Electric Aircraft. A quick check showed that there are about 80 aircraft in this list. I have compiled a few profiles so far with some more to add. However, many of those listed aircraft are projects which have not made it to prototype stage, or have been cancelled. Others include electric versions of existing ICE aircraft, such as the two-seat Cessna 172 Electric, and electric trikes and self launching gliders. If I find sufficient details to complete a profile, I will add it to the section. In the meantime, I still have more ICE aircraft to add to the other categories. Coincidentally, the current count of profiles is 1872.

According to info from other forum, this is the switch https://octopart.com/4tl837-3d-honeywell-25749542 There are about 8 wires going out of switch and I believe there would be confirmation from multiple sources that the switch was actually physically moved, rather than controlled by some computer. Also one pilot asked another why cutoff the switch, etc... The question remains: why ? I hope that will be revealed in the Final report.

Cannot happen to both engines at the same time (or within 1 sec as per the report). All systems associated with the engines are completely independent. It’s like suggesting a couple of PC21s flying in close formation both flame out at the same time due to a system fault in one aircraft.

Unless you go with Musk or in a submersible. . Regular Inspections and mandated checks help make Aviation safe, Airlines lose their AOC. Types are grounded extra training required Pilots and others are GAOLED. Nev

The physical action of moving a switch from on to off where computers control everything just means an electronic instruction has been passed to the computer controlling the fuel supply to tell the system to shut off the fuel. The physical process is purposely made difficult to prevent accidental activation. If somewhere in the system amongst the billions of transistors present on thousands of chipsets a software malfunction somehow erroneously thought it was instructed to shut off the fuel to the engines nothing could have been done to prevent it.

Knitted leg warmers like the aerobic set from the 80’s. light enough to roll off and drop on the seat before anyone sees you wearing them.

Hi All, Recreational Flying (.com) will soon come to an end...BUT, Aircraft Pilots (.com) will be born. This site has outlived most other sites around the world having been going for over 22 years now providing a great, informative, helpful, vast resource to all recreational aviators but it is time to be more comprehensive in helping all types of aviators, no matter what you all fly. The features that are available to you cover the needs of all, it is not just a Forum site, but features like Groups, Blogs, different types of Media like Articles, Movies, Books etc, ALL types of Aircraft in the Aircraft Section and the Resources section provides tools for every kind of pilot. Also Clear Prop (.com.au) will also be moving to Aircraft Pilots (.com) and currently a Single Sign On (SSO) is being developed to provide a single registration and login system to both the forums etc and shop. When it all happens both Recreational Flying (.com) and Clear Prop (.com.au) will have redirects to Aircraft Pilots (.com) to make it easier for users to make the transition. HOWEVER, if your Email Address in your account settings here at Recreational Flying (.com) is no longer active, incorrect or not working in any way you will be LOCKED OUT of the new site. To check your email address, click your avatar at the top of the main menu and then click "Account Settings": Thanks and stay tuned for some updates

Curtis Valve; Viton O'ring; Ebay; Brown or Green spec; order 10, use 1, store the rest in a safe place that you know you will forget and never be able to find them again.

The one that hit me was in attack mode. Hit the wing near the fuselage. Wakes you up. Pushed the leading edge back quite a way.

As with all investigations trying to discover all the facts, the timeline, the motives, and to examine all the potential scenarios, the worst approach is to rapidly come to a conclusion, and to then make the facts fit the conclusion one has come to. Many Police forces have failed dismally when trying to solve major crimes with limited evidence, damaged crime scenes, lies, and often, seemingly no motive - because they approached the cases with preformed ideas, and ignored seemingly small pieces of information, instantly considering them as having no value, and dismissing them from the investigation. In essence, despite air crash investigations being based on avoiding the placement of blame on any one party, the principles of crime investigation should also be applied to air crash investigations, to ensure that even the tiniest piece of evidence of the crash cause or causes, is not ignored, or dismissed out of hand. There is sufficient power pressures at play in this major crash (almost on a par with the Erebus crash), that suspicion is harboured in many quarters, that political or corporate pressure will be applied to ensure that either Air India, Boeing, or even the Indian Aviation regulator come out of the investigation, squeaky clean. An interesting factor now is that a U.K. based law firm, intent on placing blame on a particular party involved in the crash, has commenced its own separate crash investigation, utilising the skills and knowledge of a very senior commander from the IAF. I do feel that this law firms investigation may be skewed from day one - and they are still reliant on the AAIB providing them with information, whereupon the AAIB may withhold critical information if it reflects badly on Air India or Indian aviation training, or the Indian Aviation regulator. However, it's perhaps not a bad thing to have another investigation running alongside the primary AAIB one, to maybe uncover facts or issues that the AAIB may overlook, or ignore. I've seen one of the victims relatives describe the preliminary report as "reading like a product review", rather than placing all the facts on the table. The preliminary reports failure to address the timing of the crew voices on the CVR, and to identify those particular voices, is something that seems to be a major failure in the report and has numerous aviation experts carrying on at length about the 10 second delay in returning the fuel cutoff switches to run. That 10 second delay could easily be explained if the voice records had been given a precise timeline in the preliminary report. There would almost certainly be a "WTF" few seconds in the cockpit as the engines spooled down, power to the displays flickered (as it does in the switching from the primary generators to backup power), and a visual check of thrust control positions was carried out, immediately after major thrust failure.

I could say ! . Curtis sent me the wrong one , so no good , & expensive . The oring free from my local " fuel injection " shop . & working good ! . The different thread ! , straight or tapered . spacesailor

Let’s focus on the AAIB report and not speculate. So you’re speculating the AAIB, FAA, BOEING and GE are all covering up both Left and Right FADECs failed within 1 second of each other, then around 10 seconds later they recovered? Speaking of cowboys, if the 737 MAX crew had followed SOPs neither of those aircraft would have crashed.

An Indian pilot demonstrates the operation of the B787 fuel cutoff switches.....

IF you want to end up with having a small fortune start with a Big one and buy Planes. Better to fly someone else's and GET PAID to do it.. . Nev

......records. Cappy's emotional, if verbose, post above is because he claims to have invented surfing in the Big Flood on the Murrumbidgee. He surfed Murrumbidgee King Wave in the 1923 flood from Wagga Wagga to the Gillenbah truck stop on a piece of corrugated iron. Not many people know that in fact surfing was invented in Polynesia by Akamulakikaipo Duke Turbine, the son of the famous Joshua Duke Turbine who rowed a boat from Aberdeen to SanFransico in 1657, island hopping on the way. It was on the stopover at Nikumaroro that he found ........

I was meaning more like these than the leotard, looks like they make them in neutral colours now, not just like a rainbow threw up.

A few points. Although not mentioned in the preliminary report, the cut off switch movements were likely recorded on the cockpit audio recorders. There is no mention of any engine change in either engine N1, N2, egt ect prior to the cutoff off switch movements that would have required any pilot memory action. The only pilot actions required at that stage of flight is to retract under carriage and pitch for desired airspeed.

Latest micro helicopter now with GPS for easy hovering, return to home and failsafe to home should radio or flight battery hit low voltage. Turn off the GPS and you can fly indoors with optical flow and LiDAR sensor assistance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ANa3999lSE

Wow. I appreciate your post and its history. By the way, on a break from Panguna Copper Mine on Bougainville Island, staying in Rabaul I met a couple who owned Kulon Plantation near Kokopo, East New Britain Province PNG. They asked me to look after the plantation so that they could have a well-deserved vacation in Europe. I agreed and spent a couple of months there after a brief period being "shown the ropes" on what that entailed - basically supervision of the indentured labour on the plantation and the copra processing operation and export of the smoked product through the port of Rabaul. Simple stuff. Here are some photos of Kulon and environs at the time (1970). The tunnels were dug into the soft volcanic ash deposits (tuff or tufa) by the Japanese military during WW2 and still contained munitions like mortar rounds, artillery shells, AP mines and aerial bombs. Locals used these as sources of high explosives to stun fish on the fringing reefs and quite a few of the men had missing limbs owing to "accidents" during their fishing expeditions.

On a side note a good friend of mine told a story from his father who flew in New Guinea during WW II said that pilots had their breakfast on return from their mission. Their breakfast included an egg and the ground crew would ask him who got the egg if he did not return from the mission. Just a nice story to share from those times. Eggs would have been a valued food and in short supply.

A Europa is the best all purpose light aircraft ever designed. With a Rotax 916 fitted it will effortlessly overtake an A320 on final approach and outclimb it on take off and departure performance to the first 3000'; it may require some minor work to render it safe to enable 260kt IAS cruise speeds... It has taken the light aircraft industry until 2023 to catch up and exceed the 80hp Europa's performance class envelope. The Bristell cannot outperform it. The 912iS Sling2, 80hp Sonex and Pipistrel SW121 and JMB VL3 can match it for speed and thats about all. The Risen is pretty much all thats out there that can outperform it and a 914 powered Europa will match the Risen all day every day. And thats mostly about it. None of the above aircraft are able to land or takeoff again where a Europa Mono can. None of the above aircraft can be derigged and loaded onto a trailer and driven away within 10 minutes. None of the above aircraft have a +12G spar and wing purposely designed by an Airbus Aerodynamics Department Chief Director. Except for the Risen none of the above aircraft use less fuel than a Smart Fortwo per ground nautical mile covered. Nobody is able to afford my invoice, self included, for formatting everyone's data sets for them. We are all in Big School now wearing Big Pants playing with Big Toys reading Big Books

The Jabiru are a very capable robust and solid platform; easily serviced and widely supported; and they get up and move when needed. Its a good all rounder aircraft. The larger 4 seater has an amazing load carrying capacity; with the rear occupant seats removed it becomes a mini flying camper van. Throw some tundra tyres on and you are ready to go places. In comparison, based upon real world recorded study results, a 912ULS Europa Classic Mono with a three blade 68" diameter ground adjustable prop, if tuned to best operating efficiency, will deliver the following: +4.5/-2.5 G BEW 325kg Cabin Width 1.0m Fuel 76L Max / 110L Long Range MTOW 554kg Regulated / 620kg Design Limit Nominal take off run to unstick (one up) Tarmac 70m, Short Dry Grass 120m - Departure & Climb (fully loaded) Vy 1300fpm @ 105kt, Vx 1100fpm @ 80kt Vs0 45kt Vs1 53kt Vno 130kt Vne 165kt Best Glide 12:1 at 73kt @ 260fpm DR Best Duration 35% power 75kt (7L/hr) Holding Speed 45% power 95kt (8L/hr) Best Range Speed 60% power 115kt (10.5L/hr) Best Forward Speed 75% power 125kt (13L/hr) Max Sustained Forward Speed 80% power 130kt (18L/hr) 152kt TAS @ FL10 ISA Max Forward Speed WOT 140kt (25L/hr) Again, the Jabiru are a good all rounder.

Often it is not about what it was designed for but how difficult/expensive is it to do the new paperwork.

I've spoken to and had transaction dealings with Rod Lovell, I found him to be a decent bloke, and he copped a lot of abuse and unfair treatment from aviation authorities, and even the flying fraternity over this crash. I didn't know about this crash until well after I'd dealt with him. After I discovered the story of the crash, I personally think Rod was unfairly maligned, and he made the best of a bad situation. It doesn't pay to fly ancient junky old aeroplanes if you value your aviation reputation.

I see the simulator Ex-spurts are sayings pilot error .. Are they The Same ones that vowed and declared Scully Could Have landed at an airport without a problem?? The blackbox is Only showing the electrical pulse in the wiring Not physical positions

I just spent TIME on PPRuNe. I'm exhausted. Nev

Unlikely and BOTH of them? Flight engineers disappeared in the 80's, that's 40 years ago. There's nothing for them to do in today's aeroplanes and they'd be Bored $#itless. They can also make mistakes and MISS others making them. I share the Indian Airpilots group warning against putting the Blame on the crew before it's finally assessed which may still be a while yet. The only place a High PSV would be located is after the Engine HIGH pressure pump probably in the engine fuel control unit ON the engine. Nev

The only way the person querying the FCS position would know they were in the Cutoff position would be to observe the switch position. There are no indications of fuel valve positions. Again, I point out these systems are in no way connected to each other. The chances of both systems experiencing the same fault within 1 second of each other are too remote.

Of Course that plane had positive climb. You can see it in the Vids. Check what altitude it reached. The ONLY way to do the cut off is to move the switch. The response is to put them back on and try a relight for which there was not enough time. The RAT would deploy with no electrical Power There would be no program to cut off BOTH Engines in such circumstances. I think we can be sure of that as it wouldn't get certification. Nev

Preliminary report: https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/news-items/2024/preliminary-report-bacchus-marsh-light-aircraft-accident

I see Narva have a duel outlet 2.5 amp each outlet you would hope to be reasonable quality compared to what you see on eBay etc, any thing you go to buy and mention it’s for aviation the price is always dearer maybe they think you have to be rich to own a plane, don’t know were I went wrong

I'd be a bit disappointed, if that were the case. In Aviation particularly IF you aren't sure, Check it. " We ALL make mistakes" wouldn't be an acceptable response at the Inquest. IF you want to Aviate "THINK Aeroplane". Nev

Not directly relevant to this specific accident. Most of these systems self identify a fault and are essentially Fail safe. Most of you are indulging in "what ifs" if you are not very familiar with this aircraft and it's specific systems Logic. Plus as time goes on more wild suggestions emerge to confuse things. One thing is lever lock switches do not move themselves and self activation of such a vital function of fuel flow to 2 ENGINES AT ONCE SHOULD BE COMPLETELY regarded as not very likely.. Nev

One of the reasons you were ""selected" by SWMBO was Financial and Other, security. Your Plane is a threat and it is a SINGLE seater.. Nev

On multi-week trips I discovered I can dry my laundry in the plane. Combination of ram air from the eyeball vents and the cabin heater works a treat. Might get some looks one day if my undies end up on my head after turbulence though.

.... where Margot Fontaine was well known for liking a bit of pork on her fork, and Rudy could do wonders with a quart of vodka, a rather large diameter seasoned pork sausage, a full dip plie, and a gasp ......